I'm officially on the Stroud bandwagon

[YDFL Commish]

These are the two videos that convinced me.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cvGn1WgYQSQ

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NkPc4SZS5Ok

While I think that Levis has the most upside, I see to many Wentzism's to ever believe that he will get there.

Stroud has room to grow as well, but I believe that he is closer to his ceiling and his ceiling will be very very good.

[Puck]

I am officially on the AR15 bandwagon. Swing big or go home. This kid has HUGE upside

[Dam8610]

These are the two videos that convinced me.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cvGn1WgYQSQ

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NkPc4SZS5Ok

While I think that Levis has the most upside, I see to many Wentzism's to ever believe that he will get there.

Stroud has room to grow as well, but I believe that he is closer to his ceiling and his ceiling will be very very good.

Glad to have you on board. Levis is damn near a Wentz clone, right down to the foot pointing problem, lack of concern for ball security, and the gingerness. Hard pass on Levis.

[Colts And Orioles]

o


I like Stroud.

I would love for CJ Stroud-to-Parris Campbell to become a thing, with the 2 former Buckeyes making a name for themselves with the Colts.

o

[ChaosTheory]

These are the two videos that convinced me.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cvGn1WgYQSQ

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NkPc4SZS5Ok

While I think that Levis has the most upside, I see to many Wentzism's to ever believe that he will get there.

Stroud has room to grow as well, but I believe that he is closer to his ceiling and his ceiling will be very very good.

I missed this thread. I really like O'Sullivan's vids. I haven't watched the Stroud vid yet, but I've seen the Levis and I agree. He may have upside, but the footwork, accuracy, and Wentz flashbacks are scary. When people say arm talent, I guess they're talking about the deep balls, because I haven't been all that impressed with the rest of the throws.

I honestly haven't even really looked at Bryce Young much. I just can't get over a 190lbs. QB.

[YDFL Commish]

I missed this thread. I really like O'Sullivan's vids. I haven't watched the Stroud vid yet, but I've seen the Levis and I agree. He may have upside, but the footwork, accuracy, and Wentz flashbacks are scary. When people say arm talent, I guess they're talking about the deep balls, because I haven't been all that impressed with the rest of the throws.

I honestly haven't even really looked at Bryce Young much. I just can't get over a 190lbs. QB.

I will not watch young either. I would hat tailor an offense around him, taking 7 to 9 step drops most of the time, because he can't see over the O-Line.

[Chromeburn]

These are the two videos that convinced me.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cvGn1WgYQSQ

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NkPc4SZS5Ok

While I think that Levis has the most upside, I see to many Wentzism's to ever believe that he will get there.

Stroud has room to grow as well, but I believe that he is closer to his ceiling and his ceiling will be very very good.

Give me processing and accuracy above all else. Now can they get him at 4?

[Dam8610]

Give me processing and accuracy above all else. Now can they get him at 4?

No, which is why trading up to 1 is essential. I'd rather give up just about anything but next year's 1 to do it, but that will likely have to be part of the deal unless the Colts are willing to trade some of their best players and the Bears value them. If they can avoid giving up next year's 1, pairing Stroud with Harrison Jr. in the NFL would be ideal.

[ChaosTheory]

No, which is why trading up to 1 is essential. I'd rather give up just about anything but next year's 1 to do it, but that will likely have to be part of the deal unless the Colts are willing to trade some of their best players and the Bears value them. If they can avoid giving up next year's 1, pairing Stroud with Harrison Jr. in the NFL would be ideal.

Man, it sucks, but I have a feeling Eberflus would want some of our young guys on D on the table. Ultimately it's worth it if you believe in the QB.

[Dam8610]

Man, it sucks, but I have a feeling Eberflus would want some of our young guys on D on the table. Ultimately it's worth it if you believe in the QB.

I'd gladly give them the 4th pick, Taylor, and Leonard, get Stroud, and keep next year's 1. That's the best of all worlds IMO.

[Lov2fish]

I'd gladly give them the 4th pick, Taylor, and Leonard, get Stroud, and keep next year's 1. That's the best of all worlds IMO.

You sniffing glue? No way in the fucking world is Stroud worth that haul. I'm glad you're not our GM. We would be stuck in the 80's as a team. There is not ONE. SINGLE. QB. in this draft worth trading shit for. They all have a higher risk of bust than franchise. You have to be one of the worse talent evaluators on this board. Your knowledge of football is exceptional most times, which is the puzzling part when you start hyping guys. Most of the ones you were willing to hock the farm for the last few years are not even in the league anymore, or 2nd. string and bench riders.

[YDFL Commish]

You sniffing glue? No way in the fucking world is Stroud worth that haul. I'm glad you're not our GM. We would be stuck in the 80's as a team. There is not ONE. SINGLE. QB. in this draft worth trading shit for. They all have a higher risk of bust than franchise. You have to be one of the worse talent evaluators on this board. Your knowledge of football is exceptional most times, which is the puzzling part when you start hyping guys. Most of the ones you were willing to hock the farm for the last few years are not even in the league anymore, or 2nd. string and bench riders.

I agree that is too much of a haul for Stroud when only moving up a few spots.

This from Matt Miller on ESPN seems to back that up:

"In this scenario, the Colts take the plunge, sending the Bears the Nos. 4 and 35 picks, a fourth-rounder and a 2024 third-rounder to jump to the top.

I spoke to a few people in the league for context on what might seem like a fair deal, and this fits for both franchises. Indy can get its signal-caller, and Chicago should still have the chance to land a top defender while adding a haul of draft assets, including a valuable second-rounder."

Now if you wanna substitute one of those pick for a player, then that may be possible as well.

[Lov2fish]

I agree that is too much of a haul for Stroud when only moving up a few spots.

This from Matt Miller on ESPN seems to back that up:

"In this scenario, the Colts take the plunge, sending the Bears the Nos. 4 and 35 picks, a fourth-rounder and a 2024 third-rounder to jump to the top.

I spoke to a few people in the league for context on what might seem like a fair deal, and this fits for both franchises. Indy can get its signal-caller, and Chicago should still have the chance to land a top defender while adding a haul of draft assets, including a valuable second-rounder."

Now if you wanna substitute one of those pick for a player, then that may be possible as well.

That's to much to move up 3 spots. Stroud, Levis, Richardson, and Young are not worth any move out of the spot we are in. We have way to many holes to be moving that kind of draft capital. I would take Carr first before I gave up anything for those guys. NOT A SINGLE ONE is worth jumping 3 spots, not a one of them.

[YDFL Commish]

That's to much to move up 3 spots. Stroud, Levis, Richardson, and Young are not worth any move out of the spot we are in. We have way to many holes to be moving that kind of draft capital. I would take Carr first before I gave up anything for those guys. NOT A SINGLE ONE is worth jumping 3 spots, not a one of them.

It may be too much, but Ballard did say that he would do whatever it takes to get "THE GUY".

Whether or not Ballard thinks any of the current crop of QB's is "THE GUY" is largely unknown.

[Chromeburn]

It may be too much, but Ballard did say that he would do whatever it takes to get "THE GUY".

Whether or not Ballard thinks any of the current crop of QB's is "THE GUY" is largely unknown.

Local reporters don’t like it but the leaks have seemed to dry up this off season. Good thing because it seemed ppl had a bead on who we liked before. but they may have no idea who we are looking at now.

[Chromeburn]

No, which is why trading up to 1 is essential. I'd rather give up just about anything but next year's 1 to do it, but that will likely have to be part of the deal unless the Colts are willing to trade some of their best players and the Bears value them. If they can avoid giving up next year's 1, pairing Stroud with Harrison Jr. in the NFL would be ideal.

I’m not sure. Wonder who the Texans will like. Young has incredible poise for a QB. Burrow like poise. Too bad he’s so tiny. I just don’t think that 2024 1st round should be on the table. Too valuable. It could be Caleb Williams or MH Jr. I wouldn’t trade it.

[Dam8610]

You sniffing glue? No way in the fucking world is Stroud worth that haul. I'm glad you're not our GM. We would be stuck in the 80's as a team. There is not ONE. SINGLE. QB. in this draft worth trading shit for. They all have a higher risk of bust than franchise. You have to be one of the worse talent evaluators on this board. Your knowledge of football is exceptional most times, which is the puzzling part when you start hyping guys. Most of the ones you were willing to hock the farm for the last few years are not even in the league anymore, or 2nd. string and bench riders.

I agree that is too much of a haul for Stroud when only moving up a few spots.

This from Matt Miller on ESPN seems to back that up:

"In this scenario, the Colts take the plunge, sending the Bears the Nos. 4 and 35 picks, a fourth-rounder and a 2024 third-rounder to jump to the top.

I spoke to a few people in the league for context on what might seem like a fair deal, and this fits for both franchises. Indy can get its signal-caller, and Chicago should still have the chance to land a top defender while adding a haul of draft assets, including a valuable second-rounder."

Now if you wanna substitute one of those pick for a player, then that may be possible as well.

I'm basing my valuation on two things: 1) The Chargers trade with the Giants in 2004, which most closely reflects the current situation the Colts face. The Giants gave up the 4th pick, their 3rd round pick, their next year's 1, and their next year's 5. 2) I'm pricing in a bit of a bidding war. The Texans probably don't want the Colts to jump them, so they're incentivized to make it harder for the Colts to move up. If we were dealing with only draft capital, I would fully expect a trade to cost this year's 1, next year's 1, this year's 3, and at least a Day 2 pick next year.

So why Taylor and Leonard? Seems like too much to give, right?

With Taylor, the Colts are facing a pending contract with an elite player at a non-premium position. Is Taylor worth a 4/72 deal with half of it guaranteed? Probably. Is it worth it to commit that much in resources to the RB position? I have my doubts. Why not make that the Bears' problem? They definitely get an elite player, which is why they're sacrificing value equivalent to a 1st round pick to get him, but now they have to deal with extending him and the potential consequences thereof.

So what about Leonard? Well, the Colts are now at least one and possibly two defensive schemes removed from the scheme in which Shaquille Leonard was an All-Pro. Where does that scheme reside now? Chicago, conveniently enough. Further, the Colts found a revelation in Zaire Franklin this year, who provides a high enough level of play that the impact of Leonard's departure would be diminished. Finally, moving him would move a large contract off the books and eliminate the uncertainty of what his return from injury will look like. Are the Bears getting good value giving up what I would consider to be the equivalent of a 2nd round pick to get Leonard? Absolutely, but the Colts are mitigating their risk and keeping their draft capital in house, which IMO with a rookie QB and a brand new head coach, is paramount to the success of the franchise moving forward.

Is it a trade that could look terrible in 5 years? Sure, but the same could be said for trading the Bears picks that end up being something like Will Anderson, Marvin Harrison Jr., and two other starting caliber players. Either way, the trade will only look bad if the QB they draft is a bust. IMO it doesn't matter who they gave up if the guy they draft is the next franchise QB.

Do you think Chiefs fans care that the Bills got Tre'Davious White, Dion Dawkins, and Tremaine Edmunds as a result of the Patrick Mahomes trade? Should we consider the Chiefs to have lost that trade? I think the answer to both of those questions is no.

[Dam8610]

I’m not sure. Wonder who the Texans will like. Young has incredible poise for a QB. Burrow like poise. Too bad he’s so tiny. I just don’t think that 2024 1st round should be on the table. Too valuable. It could be Caleb Williams or MH Jr. I wouldn’t trade it.

If you have a clear QB1 and your options are trade next year's 1 or let Houston get him, what do you do? I trade next year's 1.

[apballin]

I’m not opposed to Stroud I was saying Levi’s only trying to predict irsay

Stroud definitely has the better resume but now alot of teams are looking for QBs all of a sudden so this is gonna get interesting

I’m sure Frank Reich would love to jump ahead of us and take the Qb irsay wants

[ChaosTheory]

It may be too much, but Ballard did say that he would do whatever it takes to get "THE GUY".

Whether or not Ballard thinks any of the current crop of QB's is "THE GUY" is largely unknown.

Well the thing is, unless all of the teams agree that none of these guys is "THE GUY"... it's going to be more expensive than it should be for this crop. Even if you don't get ahead of HOU, you still need to outbid stay right behind them. Sucks if these guys are all as iffy as everyone thinks.

Best case seems to me to be if Dam is right and Stroud is a stud worth the price. Because Young is little and Levis gives me Wentz flashbacks, both of whom will give me a heart attack 20 times a game. But really I have no idea this year.

[Dam8610]

Well the thing is, unless all of the teams agree that none of these guys is "THE GUY"... it's going to be more expensive than it should be for this crop. Even if you don't get ahead of HOU, you still need to outbid stay right behind them. Sucks if these guys are all as iffy as everyone thinks.

Best case seems to me to be if Dam is right and Stroud is a stud worth the price. Because Young is little and Levis gives me Wentz flashbacks, both of whom will give me a heart attack 20 times a game. But really I have no idea this year.

The only two guys in this draft that have shown enough to believe they have the high upside of a franchise QB with minimal bust downside risk are Stroud and Young. Picking between those two, Young carries an extra risk of size as a concern. Stroud does not have that concern. Ultimately I'd be elated with Stroud, satisfied but concerned with Young, and know that we've seen the last of Ballard with Levis or Richardson. Bust potential is through the roof for Levis and Richardson.

[Chromeburn]

If you have a clear QB1 and your options are trade next year's 1 or let Houston get him, what do you do? I trade next year's 1.

Not when that pick could be a better QB next year. I would put Williams and Maye above both these guys. Then you have a host of other QBs with potential that could rise into the top five. I would stay put or deal around that 2024 1st. Even if you hit on your QB that pick could be worth a lot in trade material. And it’s no guarantee that is their QB 1. As I said each of these guys has positive and negative traits. Staying put, the very worst scenario here is they get a cornerstone defensive player.

Besides when was the last time three QBs went in the top three? I think it will be like 2020 draft ultimately.

[Chromeburn]

I’m not opposed to Stroud I was saying Levi’s only trying to predict irsay

Stroud definitely has the better resume but now alot of teams are looking for QBs all of a sudden so this is gonna get interesting

I’m sure Frank Reich would love to jump ahead of us and take the Qb irsay wants

I don’t know if we have a clear favorite bc we will still need the head coach’s and offensive staff’s input. I’m sure extensive profiles are being drawn up on all four of the guys.

[Dam8610]

Not when that pick could be a better QB next year. I would put Williams and Maye above both these guys. Then you have a host of other QBs with potential that could rise into the top five. I would stay put or deal around that 2024 1st. Even if you hit on your QB that pick could be worth a lot in trade material. And it’s no guarantee that is their QB 1. As I said each of these guys has positive and negative traits. Staying put, the very worst scenario here is they get a cornerstone defensive player.

Besides when was the last time three QBs went in the top three? I think it will be like 2020 draft ultimately.

Yeah I don't buy that. Everyone will find something to nitpick about Caleb Williams by then (here's a great one: he's a Lincoln Riley QB). Drake Maye brings visions of Mitch Trubisky and Sam Howell to mind. Prospect fatigue is real and the shiny new toy will always be the walking red flag by the time their draft cycle comes around. People invented that Stroud can't produce off schedule because they needed to have a negative. He looks a lot like Aaron Rodgers off schedule to me.

And to be clear, I think Stroud will be Ballard's clear QB1. He has franchise QB upside, low bust risk, all the physical traits Ballard would look for in a QB, and I've heard and seen nothing but positive about his mental makeup. Young's size will scare Ballard, he'll put on tape of Levis and get Carson Wentz flashbacks, and he'll see Richardson as the completely raw ball of physical traits that he is.

[IndyNorm]

]Yeah I don't buy that. Everyone will find something to nitpick about Caleb Williams by then (here's a great one: he's a Lincoln Riley QB). Drake Maye brings visions of Mitch Trubisky and Sam Howell to mind.[/B] Prospect fatigue is real and the shiny new toy will always be the walking red flag by the time their draft cycle comes around. People invented that Stroud can't produce off schedule because they needed to have a negative. He looks a lot like Aaron Rodgers off schedule to me.

And to be clear, I think Stroud will be Ballard's clear QB1. He has franchise QB upside, low bust risk, all the physical traits Ballard would look for in a QB, and I've heard and seen nothing but positive about his mental makeup. Young's size will scare Ballard, he'll put on tape of Levis and get Carson Wentz flashbacks, and he'll see Richardson as the completely raw ball of physical traits that he is.

You know saying Williams being a Lincoln Riley QB or that Maye is like Trubisky or Howell (not sure why you dragged him into this) is the exact same thing as saying we shouldn't draft Stroud b/c he's a Ryan Day/OSU QB right? Only Riley's QBs have had a lot more success in the NFL than any Ryan Day/OSU QBs.

Also, Ballard has shown that he values traits well above a player's film and/or production. At least at other positions he has (DE, WR). Hopefully he views QBs differently or else I'm afraid we'll end up with Richardson.

[Oldcolt]

Drafting a qb is a crap shoot, just like getting the correct coach. Nobody has any idea who will be great,if anyone, with this class of qbs. Unless it is someone like Elway, Manning or Luck a lot will have to do with the players and system we put around him. None of these guys seem like they are anything special. I hope we stay put and take whomever falls to us and build a decent coaching staff and line around him. Mostly I hope we get lucky

[Dam8610]

You know saying Williams being a Lincoln Riley QB or that Maye is like Trubisky or Howell (not sure why you dragged him into this) is the exact same thing as saying we shouldn't draft Stroud b/c he's a Ryan Day/OSU QB right? Only Riley's QBs have had a lot more success in the NFL than any Ryan Day/OSU QBs.

Also, Ballard has shown that he values traits well above a player's film and/or production. At least at other positions he has (DE, WR). Hopefully he views QBs differently or else I'm afraid we'll end up with Richardson.

No, saying that Lincoln Riley QBs have struggled in the NFL is not the same as saying that OSU has not sent many QBs to the NFL. Baker Mayfield, Kyler Murray, Jalen Hurts, Spencer Rattler, and now Caleb Williams. Mayfield and Murray were both the #1 overall pick in their respective draft class. Mayfield was definitely a disappointment for the Browns, and the Cardinals hesitantly and almost begrudgingly resigned Kyler Murray, originally putting a film study clause in his contract, he seems disappointing as well. Hurts was an MVP candidate this year, but I'm inclined to believe that has more to do with an incredibly talented supporting cast and fantastic injury luck than it does with Hurts being an elite QB. The jury is definitely still out on Hurts. Rattler faded into obscurity after looking like a future #1 pick for a time, and did nothing to re-establish his draft value away from Lincoln Riley.

As far as Maye goes, I suppose it's fair to not link Trubisky and Howell to him, as they were Larry Fedora QBs, but Mack Brown QBs don't inspire much more confidence. Vince Young and who? Colt McCoy? Not exactly world beaters.

As for Ryan Day QBs, that Burrow guy is doing pretty okay, and the Bears don't seem to want to get rid of Justin Fields in favor of one of this year's QBs, despite the current front office not being the one that drafted him. Realistically, Fields is the only true test case of Ryan Day QBs at this point, and the jury is still out on him.

All that said, my point was more that Caleb Williams and Drake Maye are the shiny new toys right now. They're being talked about now the way CJ Stroud and Bryce Young were being talked about this time last year. Prospect fatigue is real, and you can expect it to set in with anyone, especially QBs. People start finding negative things about them just to stop having to talk about them. Don't be surprised if at this time next year, we're talking about the high risk, non-franchise QB prospects that are Caleb Williams and Drake Maye, but don't worry, the shiny new toys of the 2025 draft class will save us all.

Regarding Ballard's evaluation style, he does value traits and athleticism at most positions, but when he's drafting high, he tends to take players that have the film to match the traits they display on the field. If he was going to draft an Anthony Richardson type, he'd do it in Round 2 or 3, not in the top 5 of the draft. Furthermore, we can look at the 2 QBs Ballard has drafted to get some insight as to what he values at the position, Jacob Eason and Sam Ehlinger. Eason had a cannon arm, good accuracy and ball placement, not much athleticism, even less pocket presence, and needed to learn how to throw a touch pass. Ehlinger had a noodle arm, great short and intermediate accuracy, good athleticism, decent pocket presence, and knew how to vary the speed of the balls that his limited arm could throw. These were also developmental QBs drafted in the 4th and 6th rounds, respectively, but what I can gather from it is Ballard definitely values accuracy and ball placement, he probably values arm strength a bit higher than he does athleticism, but I also think he values pocket presence and the ability to escape and make a play pretty highly, because he only drafted Eason in Round 4 despite publicly saying he had a higher grade on him, and he drafted Ehlinger, who most had as undraftable that year. Stroud and Young are pretty even in all of those categories, which is where you get to the physical traits, and Stroud wins out because he's a legitimate 6'3" and Young is an illegitimate 6'0" (I'd be more surprised if his measurement came in at 6'0" than if his measurement came in at 5'9"). I could be completely wrong, but I'd be shocked if the Colts have any interest in any QB that isn't Stroud or Young. Will we hear a lot that that is the case? Probably, but this is draft season. If Ballard said the sky was blue and water was wet, I'd check the veracity of both statements until April 30.

[apballin]

I’ll say the recent path of success in college and showing up in big games, Lawrence, Tua, Hurts, and Burrow seems to be a strong sign of success at the next level so Stroud is on that path… now the question is will he be there at 4? And does Irsay love him or does he want the blue collar gritty guy Levis?

[IndyNorm]

No, saying that Lincoln Riley QBs have struggled in the NFL is not the same as saying that OSU has not sent many QBs to the NFL. Baker Mayfield, Kyler Murray, Jalen Hurts, Spencer Rattler, and now Caleb Williams. Mayfield and Murray were both the #1 overall pick in their respective draft class. Mayfield was definitely a disappointment for the Browns, and the Cardinals hesitantly and almost begrudgingly resigned Kyler Murray, originally putting a film study clause in his contract, he seems disappointing as well. Hurts was an MVP candidate this year, but I'm inclined to believe that has more to do with an incredibly talented supporting cast and fantastic injury luck than it does with Hurts being an elite QB. The jury is definitely still out on Hurts. Rattler faded into obscurity after looking like a future #1 pick for a time, and did nothing to re-establish his draft value away from Lincoln Riley.

As far as Maye goes, I suppose it's fair to not link Trubisky and Howell to him, as they were Larry Fedora QBs, but Mack Brown QBs don't inspire much more confidence. Vince Young and who? Colt McCoy? Not exactly world beaters.

As for Ryan Day QBs, that Burrow guy is doing pretty okay, and the Bears don't seem to want to get rid of Justin Fields in favor of one of this year's QBs, despite the current front office not being the one that drafted him. Realistically, Fields is the only true test case of Ryan Day QBs at this point, and the jury is still out on him.



Stating that the jury it still out on Hurts is by far one of the dumbest statements ever posted on this board. In his 2nd season of starting he has his team in the Super Bowl and came in 2nd in the MVP voting, but yeah the jury is definitely still out on him. It's probably an even dumber statement than you still claiming that the Jagoffs drafting Trevor Lawrence was some giant mistake.

Mayfield and Murray are going to struggle in the NFL b/c of their size (which is why most of us don't want the Colts to draft Young), especially Murray. And to be fair to Mayfield, he's had more success than either of Ryan Day's QBs in the NFL, who are Haskins and Fields. Joe Burrow isn't a Ryan Day QB. He spent 1 season as a backup with Day as his OC. If we're handing out NFL success kudos to QBs college coaches then credit for Burrow needs to go to Ed Orgeron and Steve Ensminger.

[ChaosTheory]

In his 2nd season of starting he has his team in the Super Bowl and came in 2nd in the MVP voting, but yeah the jury is definitely still out on him.

Devil's advocate:

Colin Kaepernick was also in his 2nd season starting, 3rd season overall when he led a loaded 49ers team to 12-4 and a trip to the Super Bowl. He got figured out and was 11-24 after that.

Not saying Hurts will follow suit, but interesting.

[nate505]

You sniffing glue? No way in the fucking world is Stroud worth that haul. I'm glad you're not our GM. We would be stuck in the 80's as a team. There is not ONE. SINGLE. QB. in this draft worth trading shit for. They all have a higher risk of bust than franchise. You have to be one of the worse talent evaluators on this board. Your knowledge of football is exceptional most times, which is the puzzling part when you start hyping guys. Most of the ones you were willing to hock the farm for the last few years are not even in the league anymore, or 2nd. string and bench riders.

No kidding. At that point I'd rather just see them draft Levis or Anthony Richardson. Not that I prefer those two over Stroud or Young, but I would prefer either of them over giving up the farm for Stroud or Young.

[nate505]

I’m not opposed to Stroud I was saying Levi’s only trying to predict irsay

Stroud definitely has the better resume but now alot of teams are looking for QBs all of a sudden so this is gonna get interesting

I’m sure Frank Reich would love to jump ahead of us and take the Qb irsay wants

I bet he would, but the Panthers would have to give up quite the bundle of assets to move up that far. Especially if it's to 1. The Bears dropping to 4 at least gives them a pretty legit shot at one of the two best defenders in the draft. The Bears dropping to 8 doesn't.

[IndyNorm]

Devil's advocate:

Colin Kaepernick was also in his 2nd season starting, 3rd season overall when he led a loaded 49ers team to 12-4 and a trip to the Super Bowl. He got figured out and was 11-24 after that.

Not saying Hurts will follow suit, but interesting.

That's a reasonable hypothetical to throw out there. I don't think it will happen to Hurts, but players do regress and/or sometimes unable to adjust when the league adapts to them like Kaepernick.

But that's not what Dam is saying. Dam is saying that Hurts really isn't any good and the only reason why he's having any success is b/c of the talent around him. The thing is though for QBs to succeed in the NFL they have to have talent around them, especially early on. Using Dam's logic the only reason why Burrow has been so successful is b/c the Bungles are absolutely loaded at receiver, and I can go on and on w/ the examples of this included Peyton.

[Dam8610]

Stating that the jury it still out on Hurts is by far one of the dumbest statements ever posted on this board. In his 2nd season of starting he has his team in the Super Bowl and came in 2nd in the MVP voting, but yeah the jury is definitely still out on him.

The only QB who it could be even argued had a more talented receiver room backing him up than Hurts is Tua Tagovailoa, and while WR1 and WR2 are a dead heat between those teams, I'd take the Eagles 3-5 on the strength of Zach Pascal alone. Then they had an elite when healthy RB and TE who for the first or second time in their careers were healthy for most if not all of the season. I'm not confident all those factors align again for Hurts, and without them, I'd expect him to regress back to 2021 form.

It's probably an even dumber statement than you still claiming that the Jagoffs drafting Trevor Lawrence was some giant mistake.

If the Colts play this offseason right, they will put Lawrence and the Jaguars in the rearview for the next decade and expose Lawrence for the fraud he is. He's getting by on athleticism right now, but he still can't make a full field read, or an anticipation throw. Even an offensive genius like Doug Pederson can't hide that forever, and smart teams will always exploit it. I'll believe Lawrence will be anything more than an NFL footnote when I see him consistently make full field reads. The invented criticism of Stroud that he only does well in the structure of the offense applies in reverse to Lawrence. Trevor Lawrence does his best work when the play breaks down and he's playing backyard scramble drill football. He can't operate within the structure of the offense currently, unless the structure of the offense is incredibly simplified for an NFL offense.

Mayfield and Murray are going to struggle in the NFL b/c of their size (which is why most of us don't want the Colts to draft Young), especially Murray.

Ah, so your criticism of Caleb Williams will be his lack of height, since he's 6'1" same as Mayfield. Fair enough.

And to be fair to Mayfield, he's had more success than either of Ryan Day's QBs in the NFL, who are Haskins and Fields.

You should look at Fields's 2022 again, especially if you truly believe Jalen Hurts is an elite MVP caliber QB rather than a lucky fluke. Also bear in mind, 2022 Fields didn't have a tenth of the supporting cast that 2021 Hurts did, let alone 2022 Hurts.

And as for Haskins, nobody but the Commanders thought Haskins would be a quality NFL starter, and they deluded themselves into it as badly as the Vikings deluded themselves into believing Christian Ponder could be the guy.

Joe Burrow isn't a Ryan Day QB. He spent 1 season as a backup with Day as his OC. If we're handing out NFL success kudos to QBs college coaches then credit for Burrow needs to go to Ed Orgeron and Steve Ensminger.

That was mostly tongue in cheek, I think Ryan Day's developmental ability for QBs should primarily be judged by the success of Fields and Stroud over the next 5 years.

Devil's advocate:

Colin Kaepernick was also in his 2nd season starting, 3rd season overall when he led a loaded 49ers team to 12-4 and a trip to the Super Bowl. He got figured out and was 11-24 after that.

Not saying Hurts will follow suit, but interesting.

Kaepernick is actually a very intriguing comparison for Hurts, and a great illustration of what I was trying to say.

No kidding. At that point I'd rather just see them draft Levis or Anthony Richardson. Not that I prefer those two over Stroud or Young, but I would prefer either of them over giving up the farm for Stroud or Young.

Why? I gave a very detailed explanation of why I chose Taylor and Leonard, and I honestly believe it to be savvy roster building, divesting of large investments in assets at non-premium positions, keeping all future draft capital in house, and allowing for roster and cap flexibility moving forward. An example of this would be that trading Leonard would give the Colts the cap room to retain Bobby Okereke, who is otherwise almost certain to walk in free agency. Okereke would give you about 80% of Leonard's production at about 50% of the price. In comparison to Matt Miller's trade, it's a lot of value to give up, but in comparison to even Brett Kollman's trade, it's a better value for the Colts.

That's a reasonable hypothetical to throw out there. I don't think it will happen to Hurts, but players do regress and/or sometimes unable to adjust when the league adapts to them like Kaepernick.

Which is exactly what I was saying, making it odd that you agreed with that poster, but disagreed with me.

But that's not what Dam is saying. Dam is saying that Hurts really isn't any good and the only reason why he's having any success is b/c of the talent around him. The thing is though for QBs to succeed in the NFL they have to have talent around them, especially early on. Using Dam's logic the only reason why Burrow has been so successful is b/c the Bungles are absolutely loaded at receiver, and I can go on and on w/ the examples of this included Peyton.

You clearly misunderstood my point. I don't think Hurts is a bad QB, I think he's about league average, and that with normal injury luck instead of the incredible, statistics defying injury luck the Eagles had this year, would put him in that tier instead of the elite tier people want to ascribe to him.

There's also a key difference in Burrow and Manning vs. Hurts in terms of the talent around them, especially at WR. Manning made his WRs. Marvin Harrison was talented before Manning, but never would've reached the elite heights he did without Manning. Reggie Wayne looked like a bust in his first two seasons, Manning worked with him and turned him into a Hall of famer. For Burrow, I'd make a similar argument. Ja'Marr Chase and Burrow came into their own together at LSU before being reunited in the NFL. Tee Higgins was a rookie in the same year as Burrow, and they've developed together. Tyler Boyd was good before Burrow, and has still had success in a diminished role due to the emergence of Chase and Higgins.

Hurts, on the other hand, had little to nothing to do with the development of A.J. Brown and DeVonta Smith. A.J. Brown was traded for in this year's draft and has lived up to the $100 million contract extension he received to this point. DeVonta Smith won the Heisman as a WR because he was so good and was drafted 6th overall in his draft. He came in and was productive from Day 1, and he and Hurts never worked together until they were in the NFL.

[IndyNorm]

The only QB who it could be even argued had a more talented receiver room backing him up than Hurts is Tua Tagovailoa, and while WR1 and WR2 are a dead heat between those teams, I'd take the Eagles 3-5 on the strength of Zach Pascal alone. Then they had an elite when healthy RB and TE who for the first or second time in their careers were healthy for most if not all of the season. I'm not confident all those factors align again for Hurts, and without them, I'd expect him to regress back to 2021 form.

One can easily argue the Bungles WR room is just as good. Chase is an absolute stud and one of the top WRs in the league. He'd be doing well no matter where he was. Higgins is a top WR2 and more like a 1B, and Boyd is one of the top WR3s in the league. The Bungles also have a very good RB room and have had a decent pass catching TE these past 2 years.

I'm not trying to say that Hurts is better than Burrow. We all know Burrow is better. Just trying to point out that you can make the talent around them argument about a lot of QBs in the league.

If the Colts play this offseason right, they will put Lawrence and the Jaguars in the rearview for the next decade and expose Lawrence for the fraud he is. He's getting by on athleticism right now, but he still can't make a full field read, or an anticipation throw. Even an offensive genius like Doug Pederson can't hide that forever, and smart teams will always exploit it. I'll believe Lawrence will be anything more than an NFL footnote when I see him consistently make full field reads. The invented criticism of Stroud that he only does well in the structure of the offense applies in reverse to Lawrence. Trevor Lawrence does his best work when the play breaks down and he's playing backyard scramble drill football. He can't operate within the structure of the offense currently, unless the structure of the offense is incredibly simplified for an NFL offense.

I wish you were right about Lawrence, but you're just not. He threw for 66%, 4,100 yds, and 25/8 td/int ratio. He also ran for 330 yds and 2 TDs. He's obviously doing a lot right and not this colossal bust that you seem to think he is (and probably the only person on the planet who does). Who do you think the Jagoffs should have taken instead of Lawrence? I seem to remember you liked Zach Wilson a lot. Now that would have been a huge mistake we all would have loved the Jagoffs to have made.

Ah, so your criticism of Caleb Williams will be his lack of height, since he's 6'1" same as Mayfield. Fair enough.


Maybe. Williams is certainly more athletic and from what I've seen has a better arm than Mayfield. So I don't think his size will be as much of a problem, but it could be. I didn't mention it before, but Mayfield is a head case (as is Murray). So that probably has just as much to do w/ his lack of success as his height.


You should look at Fields's 2022 again, especially if you truly believe Jalen Hurts is an elite MVP caliber QB rather than a lucky fluke. Also bear in mind, 2022 Fields didn't have a tenth of the supporting cast that 2021 Hurts did, let alone 2022 Hurts.

Fields stats for '22: 60%, 2,242 yds, 17/11 td/ints. He also ran for 420 yds and 2 TDs. Thank god we don't have to play against him twice a year and get to play against that turd Lawrence instead!!

And as for Haskins, nobody but the Commanders thought Haskins would be a quality NFL starter, and they deluded themselves into it as badly as the Vikings deluded themselves into believing Christian Ponder could be the guy.

If you're going to debit Caleb Williams b/c of guys like Murray and Mayfield then you need to debit Stroud for Haskins.

That was mostly tongue in cheek, I think Ryan Day's developmental ability for QBs should primarily be judged by the success of Fields and Stroud over the next 5 years.

This is fair. TBH I don't think you should count a player's college or HC against him at any rate, which is the point I was trying to originally make.

Kaepernick is actually a very intriguing comparison for Hurts, and a great illustration of what I was trying to say.

Which is exactly what I was saying, making it odd that you agreed with that poster, but disagreed with me.


Maybe that's what you were trying to say, but it's not what you said. You lumped in Hurts w/ a bunch of underachieving QBs and a guy who will probably end up as an UDFA. Then said that (paraphrasing) all of Hurts' success is due to the talent around him and the jury is still out on him. Also, I didn't actually agree with Chaos Theory; in fact I said that I don't think that would happen to Hurts.

You clearly misunderstood my point. I don't think Hurts is a bad QB, I think he's about league average, and that with normal injury luck instead of the incredible, statistics defying injury luck the Eagles had this year, would put him in that tier instead of the elite tier people want to ascribe to him.

You certainly make it sound like you think he's a bad QB, and that he has so much talent around him that anyone would have success in Philly. I obviously disagree with that. For the record I don't think Hurts among the ultra elite QBs in the league, but I do think he's definitely top 10 and maybe as high as 5th when you consider what he can do with his legs.

There's also a key difference in Burrow and Manning vs. Hurts in terms of the talent around them, especially at WR. Manning made his WRs. Marvin Harrison was talented before Manning, but never would've reached the elite heights he did without Manning. Reggie Wayne looked like a bust in his first two seasons, Manning worked with him and turned him into a Hall of famer. For Burrow, I'd make a similar argument. Ja'Marr Chase and Burrow came into their own together at LSU before being reunited in the NFL. Tee Higgins was a rookie in the same year as Burrow, and they've developed together. Tyler Boyd was good before Burrow, and has still had success in a diminished role due to the emergence of Chase and Higgins.

Hurts, on the other hand, had little to nothing to do with the development of A.J. Brown and DeVonta Smith. A.J. Brown was traded for in this year's draft and has lived up to the $100 million contract extension he received to this point. DeVonta Smith won the Heisman as a WR because he was so good and was drafted 6th overall in his draft. He came in and was productive from Day 1, and he and Hurts never worked together until they were in the NFL.

Burrow and Manning are better QBs than Hurts, but make no mistake they have/had a lot of talent around them. The point I was trying to make is that any successful QB will have to have talent around them, especially early on. Again, you make it seem like the Eagles could plug in anyone at QB and they'd perform at an MVP level, and that's not the case.

[Chromeburn]

Yeah I don't buy that. Everyone will find something to nitpick about Caleb Williams by then (here's a great one: he's a Lincoln Riley QB). Drake Maye brings visions of Mitch Trubisky and Sam Howell to mind. Prospect fatigue is real and the shiny new toy will always be the walking red flag by the time their draft cycle comes around. People invented that Stroud can't produce off schedule because they needed to have a negative. He looks a lot like Aaron Rodgers off schedule to me.

And to be clear, I think Stroud will be Ballard's clear QB1. He has franchise QB upside, low bust risk, all the physical traits Ballard would look for in a QB, and I've heard and seen nothing but positive about his mental makeup. Young's size will scare Ballard, he'll put on tape of Levis and get Carson Wentz flashbacks, and he'll see Richardson as the completely raw ball of physical traits that he is.

Nah, they’re universally agreed upon as better picks. Even if it isn’t a QB, it will likely be a high pick and the number of QBs will drive other talent down in the draft. I wouldn’t trade it.

[Dam8610]

One can easily argue the Bungles WR room is just as good. Chase is an absolute stud and one of the top WRs in the league. He'd be doing well no matter where he was. Higgins is a top WR2 and more like a 1B, and Boyd is one of the top WR3s in the league. The Bungles also have a very good RB room and have had a decent pass catching TE these past 2 years.

I'm not trying to say that Hurts is better than Burrow. We all know Burrow is better. Just trying to point out that you can make the talent around them argument about a lot of QBs in the league.

I never said a QB could succeed in a vacuum, but like I was saying in my last post, is the QB making the talent or is the talent making the QB? Burrow made his WR room, Hurts and Tua were bought theirs.

I wish you were right about Lawrence, but you're just not. He threw for 66%, 4,100 yds, and 25/8 td/int ratio. He also ran for 330 yds and 2 TDs. He's obviously doing a lot right and not this colossal bust that you seem to think he is (and probably the only person on the planet who does). Who do you think the Jagoffs should have taken instead of Lawrence? I seem to remember you liked Zach Wilson a lot. Now that would have been a huge mistake we all would have loved the Jagoffs to have made.

It's year 2, there's no way to definitively tell who is right or wrong. All we can do is continue to watch. Sure, you can point to his stats this season, and they look convincing, but his statline isn't telling the whole story. Example, he was 27/42 for 318 yards, 4 TDs and 1 INTs vs. the Cowboys in a comeback victory. According to many articles, this was Trevor Lawrence's "coming out party", and he'd "arrived as a star". It actually concerned me that he did so well in a win against a good team, so I went and watched the game, and saw the same old Trevor Lawrence. His TDs came half on broken plays where he used his athleticism to buy time for his #2 WR Zay Jones to burn Dallas's #2 CB, who is terrible, and half on short fields courtesy of turnovers forced by the defense where most of the work was done by the running game and Lawrence got a cheap TD on a half field read. He also had an INT, a fumble that would've cost them the game against any other team, and a huge amount of luck on the final drive of regulation to get the game to OT when he threw a pass that nfl.com saw fit to put as a highlight titled "Lawrence's pass unbelievably goes through defender's hands on crucial completion", which was the ball he threw to Zay Jones to get them into FG range to go to OT. By the way, did he and the offense close that game out in OT? Nope! Rayshawn Jenkins had a 52 yard pick six to deliver the win. You know you're a fraud when you're "coming out party" is basically your defense dominating Dak Prescott and you're just lucky to have not cost your team the game with 2 turnovers on your final 2 drives.

I did like Zach Wilson a lot, and I graded him in a vacuum that did not include interviews with him, and not knowing his landing spot. With Wilson, I've concluded that the New York Jets is where QB talent goes to die. I also thought that Wilson was a QB who needed a team that would sit him for a year, like the Chiefs did with Mahomes, and really needed to be developed in a similar manner to Mahomes, which of course the Jets didn't do.

I don't know that Peyton Manning would've been a successful NFL QB had he declared for the draft in 1997, because he would've been a Jet at that point, and that franchise seems to be able to kill any level of QB talent.

Maybe. Williams is certainly more athletic and from what I've seen has a better arm than Mayfield. So I don't think his size will be as much of a problem, but it could be. I didn't mention it before, but Mayfield is a head case (as is Murray). So that probably has just as much to do w/ his lack of success as his height.

My point was every QB who isn't a 1 year wonder has detractors that see some "major red flag" that may or may not be there. Even Andrew Luck, who was the best QB prospect since sliced bread (or John Elway), had detractors that said RG3 was better. I had Luck as slightly better than that Wisconsin QB that had transferred from NC State that year.

Fields stats for '22: 60%, 2,242 yds, 17/11 td/ints. He also ran for 420 yds and 2 TDs. Thank god we don't have to play against him twice a year and get to play against that turd Lawrence instead!!

Lamar Jackson 2019: 66.1% completion rate 3,127 passing yards 36 TDs 6 INTs

That's good, but MVP good? Why did he win MVP? OH, THAT'S RIGHT, just like 2022 Fields above, we forgot to add on the rushing stats

Lamar Jackson 2019: 66.1% completion rate 3,127 passing yards 36 pass TDs 6 INT 176 carries 1,206 rushing yards 7 rush TDs

Now it makes a lot more sense why Lamar won MVP in 2019. Let's look at 2022 Justin Fields in that context:

Justin Fields 2022: 60.4% completion rate 2,242 yards 17 pass TDs 11 INT 160 carries 1143 rushing yards 8 rush TDs

Fields, out of necessity due to having one of the worst offensive lines in the league and no real supporting cast to speak of, became a Lamar Jackson style QB last year, and was very good at it. I look forward to seeing what he can do with not the worst offensive unit in the NFL around him.

As for Lawrence vs. Fields, would've taken Fields at the time, still would take Fields.

If you're going to debit Caleb Williams b/c of guys like Murray and Mayfield then you need to debit Stroud for Haskins.

Do I? Haskins is really more of the last Urban Meyer QB, he clearly preferred to take athletes and stick them at QB, they only halfway successful NFL QB he ever had was Alex Smith. That was why Burrow transferred, he was buried on the depth chart due to Urban Meyer's preferences. I shudder to think what Ryan Day could've done with him.

This is fair. TBH I don't think you should count a player's college or HC against him at any rate, which is the point I was trying to originally make.

It's a data point, like anything else. It's not going to make the evaluation, probably not going to break the evaluation. It seems to be what the people who say "(insert school here) doesn't produce good QBs" are trying to capture. That said, if Urban Meyer came back to College Football and suddenly had a QB who was being touted as a potential top draft pick, the fact that Meyer has had 1 marginally successful NFL QB in almost 20 years would give me a lot of cause to look closely at that player's film.


Maybe that's what you were trying to say, but it's not what you said. You lumped in Hurts w/ a bunch of underachieving QBs and a guy who will probably end up as an UDFA. Then said that (paraphrasing) all of Hurts' success is due to the talent around him and the jury is still out on him. Also, I didn't actually agree with Chaos Theory; in fact I said that I don't think that would happen to Hurts.

I didn't lump Hurts in with anyone, google "Lincoln Riley QBs" and you'll get that list.

You agreed that his point was valid while saying mine wasn't. That was the confusing part.

You certainly make it sound like you think he's a bad QB, and that he has so much talent around him that anyone would have success in Philly. I obviously disagree with that. For the record I don't think Hurts among the ultra elite QBs in the league, but I do think he's definitely top 10 and maybe as high as 5th when you consider what he can do with his legs.

He may be that high this year, but I still think with normal injury luck instead of lottery winning level injury luck, Hurts would be in the 15-20 range of starting QBs in the NFL. It wouldn't take much regression to the mean to see that result.

Burrow and Manning are better QBs than Hurts, but make no mistake they have/had a lot of talent around them. The point I was trying to make is that any successful QB will have to have talent around them, especially early on. Again, you make it seem like the Eagles could plug in anyone at QB and they'd perform at an MVP level, and that's not the case.

I don't think the Eagles could plug anyone in at QB an get MVP level performance, but I do think that there will be at least 10 and probably more like 15 better NFL QBs than Jalen Hurts in 2023.

[IndyNorm]

I never said a QB could succeed in a vacuum, but like I was saying in my last post, is the QB making the talent or is the talent making the QB? Burrow made his WR room, Hurts and Tua were bought theirs.

That's a absolutely ricockulous statement. Tyler Boyd had 2 1,000 yard receiving seasons w/ Andy Dalton throwing him the ball. The fact that he's now WR3 for the Bungles shows how good Chase and Higgins are.

It's year 2, there's no way to definitively tell who is right or wrong. All we can do is continue to watch. Sure, you can point to his stats this season, and they look convincing, but his statline isn't telling the whole story. Example, he was 27/42 for 318 yards, 4 TDs and 1 INTs vs. the Cowboys in a comeback victory. According to many articles, this was Trevor Lawrence's "coming out party", and he'd "arrived as a star". It actually concerned me that he did so well in a win against a good team, so I went and watched the game, and saw the same old Trevor Lawrence. His TDs came half on broken plays where he used his athleticism to buy time for his #2 WR Zay Jones to burn Dallas's #2 CB, who is terrible, and half on short fields courtesy of turnovers forced by the defense where most of the work was done by the running game and Lawrence got a cheap TD on a half field read. He also had an INT, a fumble that would've cost them the game against any other team, and a huge amount of luck on the final drive of regulation to get the game to OT when he threw a pass that nfl.com saw fit to put as a highlight titled "Lawrence's pass unbelievably goes through defender's hands on crucial completion", which was the ball he threw to Zay Jones to get them into FG range to go to OT. By the way, did he and the offense close that game out in OT? Nope! Rayshawn Jenkins had a 52 yard pick six to deliver the win. You know you're a fraud when you're "coming out party" is basically your defense dominating Dak Prescott and you're just lucky to have not cost your team the game with 2 turnovers on your final 2 drives.

So in other words despite having a damn good 2nd year, Lawrence still has plenty of room to improve upon. That's a scary thought for the other teams in the AFC South.

I did like Zach Wilson a lot, and I graded him in a vacuum that did not include interviews with him, and not knowing his landing spot. With Wilson, I've concluded that the New York Jets is where QB talent goes to die. I also thought that Wilson was a QB who needed a team that would sit him for a year, like the Chiefs did with Mahomes, and really needed to be developed in a similar manner to Mahomes, which of course the Jets didn't do.

Yeah, blame the Jets. I suppose you think it's the Chargers fault that Ryan Leaf didn't pan out and the Raiders fault that JeMarcus Russell didn't work out either



My point was every QB who isn't a 1 year wonder has detractors that see some "major red flag" that may or may not be there. Even Andrew Luck, who was the best QB prospect since sliced bread (or John Elway), had detractors that said RG3 was better. I had Luck as slightly better than that Wisconsin QB that had transferred from NC State that year.


Don't disagree there.

Lamar Jackson 2019: 66.1% completion rate 3,127 passing yards 36 TDs 6 INTs

That's good, but MVP good? Why did he win MVP? OH, THAT'S RIGHT, just like 2022 Fields above, we forgot to add on the rushing stats

Lamar Jackson 2019: 66.1% completion rate 3,127 passing yards 36 pass TDs 6 INT 176 carries 1,206 rushing yards 7 rush TDs

Now it makes a lot more sense why Lamar won MVP in 2019. Let's look at 2022 Justin Fields in that context:

Justin Fields 2022: 60.4% completion rate 2,242 yards 17 pass TDs 11 INT 160 carries 1143 rushing yards 8 rush TDs

Fields, out of necessity due to having one of the worst offensive lines in the league and no real supporting cast to speak of, became a Lamar Jackson style QB last year, and was very good at it. I look forward to seeing what he can do with not the worst offensive unit in the NFL around him.

I did post Fields' rushing stats, but I stated his '21 rushing stats instead of his '22. Sorry, was multi-tasking and misread the chart. That is a very impressive rushing stat. Of course so are Hurts' rushing stats: 784 yds and 10 TDs in '21 and 760 yds and 13 TDs in '22. Not sure why you don't think so, but I'm guessing it's b/c it doesn't fit your agenda.

As for Lawrence vs. Fields, would've taken Fields at the time, still would take Fields.


You're smoking crack and probably the only person on the planet who would make that decision.

Do I? Haskins is really more of the last Urban Meyer QB, he clearly preferred to take athletes and stick them at QB, they only halfway successful NFL QB he ever had was Alex Smith. That was why Burrow transferred, he was buried on the depth chart due to Urban Meyer's preferences. I shudder to think what Ryan Day could've done with him.

Maybe not. Would have thought Day had a lot to do with Haskins development and the decision, but I suppose it could have been all on Meyer. Also, not important to our discussion, but I think the case with Burrow was more that the light turned on big time between his junior and senior years at LSU. His stats as a junior at LSU at least support this.

It's a data point, like anything else. It's not going to make the evaluation, probably not going to break the evaluation. It seems to be what the people who say "(insert school here) doesn't produce good QBs" are trying to capture. That said, if Urban Meyer came back to College Football and suddenly had a QB who was being touted as a potential top draft pick, the fact that Meyer has had 1 marginally successful NFL QB in almost 20 years would give me a lot of cause to look closely at that player's film.


That's fair. I can't disagree with anything you state here.


You agreed that his point was valid while saying mine wasn't. That was the confusing part.

You guys said different things. I'm not sure why you can't understand that.

He may be that high this year, but I still think with normal injury luck instead of lottery winning level injury luck, Hurts would be in the 15-20 range of starting QBs in the NFL. It wouldn't take much regression to the mean to see that result.

I don't think the Eagles could plug anyone in at QB an get MVP level performance, but I do think that there will be at least 10 and probably more like 15 better NFL QBs than Jalen Hurts in 2023.

I suppose we'll have to see. I'm having a really hard time seeing 10 QBs who I would put money on having a better year than Hurts next year much less 15. I'd be interested in seeing your list of who you predict will be.

[ChaosTheory]

I've lost track of this pissing contest, but here's my take: (just fucking with Norm)

[Dam8610]

That's a absolutely ricockulous statement. Tyler Boyd had 2 1,000 yard receiving seasons w/ Andy Dalton throwing him the ball. The fact that he's now WR3 for the Bungles shows how good Chase and Higgins are.

Chase and Higgins were both largely developed by Joe Burrow. Sure, Boyd was there, but like you said, Chase and Higgins are better.

So in other words despite having a damn good 2nd year, Lawrence still has plenty of room to improve upon. That's a scary thought for the other teams in the AFC South.

Sure, that's one way to look at it. Nice try at spinning it into a positive for Lawrence, by the way.

I look at it as these are the exact same things he's had "room to improve" on since he burst onto the scene by beating Alabama as a freshman at Clemson. He has shown literally zero improvement on those things in the intervening five years. Why would it suddenly happen in his third year in the NFL?

By the way, if he ever does show that improvement, I will admit I was wrong. I was wrong about Herbert coming out, he didn't look like nearly as accurate of a QB as what he has become.

Yeah, blame the Jets. I suppose you think it's the Chargers fault that Ryan Leaf didn't pan out and the Raiders fault that JeMarcus Russell didn't work out either

Is there a reason I shouldn't blame the Jets? They're the ones who threw him into the fire when he needed a year to develop. Does he not have the best public face? Sure, neither does Aaron Rodgers. If Mahomes didn't sit behind Smith his first year, do you think he'd be who he is today?

As for JaMarcus Russell and Ryan Leaf, those were clear failures on the part of NFL personnel departments who wanted so badly for the physical gifts to translate that they ignored the clear work ethic red flags of both players. I've not heard anything similar about Zach Wilson. There were no rumors of a poor work ethic around him leading up to the draft, and based on Jacob Eason's pre-draft coverage, if that stuff exists, it probably will get out.

I did post Fields' rushing stats, but I stated his '21 rushing stats instead of his '22. Sorry, was multi-tasking and misread the chart. That is a very impressive rushing stat. Of course so are Hurts' rushing stats: 784 yds and 10 TDs in '21 and 760 yds and 13 TDs in '22. Not sure why you don't think so, but I'm guessing it's b/c it doesn't fit your agenda.

What does Hurts's rushing have to do with Justin Fields? Again, never said Hurts was a bad QB, just not elite (top 5 in NFL) or MVP level (top 3 in NFL) going forward. Again, I'd go league average. Justin Fields is someone I could see surpassing Hurts in the next 2-3 years.

You're smoking crack and probably the only person on the planet who would make that decision.

The only person on the planet who would've drafted Michael Jordan over Hakeem Olajuwon would've looked pretty smart in hindsight.

So would the only guy on the planet who would've drafted Russell Wilson over RGIII, which I'm fairly certain was me.

Maybe not. Would have thought Day had a lot to do with Haskins development and the decision, but I suppose it could have been all on Meyer. Also, not important to our discussion, but I think the case with Burrow was more that the light turned on big time between his junior and senior years at LSU. His stats as a junior at LSU at least support this.

I think it's clear that Day and his former boss have different things they value from the QB position.

I suppose we'll have to see. I'm having a really hard time seeing 10 QBs who I would put money on having a better year than Hurts next year much less 15. I'd be interested in seeing your list of who you predict will be.

10 QBs that will be better than Hurts in 2023? Let's do this in tiers.

Definitely
Patrick Mahomes
Joe Burrow
Josh Allen
Justin Herbert

Maybe
Lamar Jackson
DeShaun Watson
Tua Tagovailoa
Brock Purdy
Matthew Stafford
Kyler Murray
Dak Prescott
Daniel Jones
Aaron Rodgers
Jared Goff

That's not counting Fields, Stroud, or Young, all of whom I could see surpassing him within 2 years, or guys like Russell Wilson or Derek Carr, who looked much worse this year, but are bounceback candidates based on regression to the mean alone.

[apballin]

Hurts has played good but I don’t consider him elite, plays well in the system and Eagles built a hell of a team because they have a QB on a rookie deal. Eagles are talented at every level and suffered no real injuries. He reminds me of Cam Newton.. while nearly unstoppable and very close to being a superbowl champion his game wasn’t sustainable and he flamed out very quickly. Once the Eagles have to pay Hurts and his team isn’t stacked with talent we’ll see how good he really is

[IndyNorm]

Chase and Higgins were both largely developed by Joe Burrow. Sure, Boyd was there, but like you said, Chase and Higgins are better.

Holy shit. You actually think Chase and Higgins owe everything to Burrow and wouldn't be good WRs if they were playing elsewhere. You really are a special kind of fucking stupid aren't you?


Sure, that's one way to look at it. Nice try at spinning it into a positive for Lawrence, by the way.

I look at it as these are the exact same things he's had "room to improve" on since he burst onto the scene by beating Alabama as a freshman at Clemson. He has shown literally zero improvement on those things in the intervening five years. Why would it suddenly happen in his third year in the NFL?

By the way, if he ever does show that improvement, I will admit I was wrong. I was wrong about Herbert coming out, he didn't look like nearly as accurate of a QB as what he has become.


The dude threw for 66%, 4,100 yards, and 25/8 in his 2nd year. He had a very good year. Face it, you're wrong. Just admit it.


Is there a reason I shouldn't blame the Jets? They're the ones who threw him into the fire when he needed a year to develop. Does he not have the best public face? Sure, neither does Aaron Rodgers. If Mahomes didn't sit behind Smith his first year, do you think he'd be who he is today?

Do you honestly think Wilson has no responsibility at all in being a bust?


What does Hurts's rushing have to do with Justin Fields? Again, never said Hurts was a bad QB, just not elite (top 5 in NFL) or MVP level (top 3 in NFL) going forward. Again, I'd go league average. Justin Fields is someone I could see surpassing Hurts in the next 2-3 years.

You seem to think Fields is a complete stud and franchise QB while Hurts isn't. That's what Hurts rushing yards have to do with it. I can't figure out why you think this way other than you're a fan of Fields and not Hurts.

The only person on the planet who would've drafted Michael Jordan over Hakeem Olajuwon would've looked pretty smart in hindsight.

So would the only guy on the planet who would've drafted Russell Wilson over RGIII, which I'm fairly certain was me.

Holy shit Justin Fields is fucking Michael Jordan now! LMAO!!!!!!

BTW: I doubt the Rockets are too upset over drafting Olajuwon since he's in the HOF and they did win multiple championships under him.



10 QBs that will be better than Hurts in 2023? Let's do this in tiers.

My comments bolded below.

Definitely
Patrick Mahomes
Joe Burrow
Josh Allen
Justin Herbert

Can't disagree with any of these. Maybe Herbert, but I'd probably put money on him over Hurts.

Maybe
Lamar Jackson - He's a possibility, but I doubt it. His play has declined and he'll probably still be all butt hurt about not being offered Watson money.

DeShaun Watson - Again it's possible, but I doubt it. He was awful when he came back, and it's the Browns.

Tua Tagovailoa - Hard no on Tua. He will likely not hold up through the season and really needs to hang it up since he's had like 5 concussions already.

Brock Purdy - Again a hard no. He was a nice story, but he might not even start for the 49ers next season.

Matthew Stafford - Possible, but risky. His play declined and he's coming off of a neck injury.

Kyler Murray - Hard no. His play has significantly regressed and he's become a head case (interesting that you're now saying he's a top 10 QB after saying he was junk in an earlier post).

Dak Prescott - Possible. I'd bet on Hurts, but Dak is certainly capable.

Daniel Jones - You're fucking joking right?

Aaron Rodgers - Possible but risky. Father time seems to be catching up with him, and he's become disgruntled.

Jared Goff - Hard no.

That's not counting Fields - Hard no, Stroud - No, he'll be a rookie on a bad team, or Young - No. Rookie on a bad team, and he probably won't be able to hold up through the season, all of whom I could see surpassing him within 2 years, or guys like Russell Wilson - Possible, but something seems really wrong with him or Derek Carr - No. His best days are long behind him, who looked much worse this year, but are bounceback candidates based on regression to the mean alone.

[IndyNorm]

I've lost track of this pissing contest, but here's my take: (just fucking with Norm)

:D

[Dam8610]

Holy shit. You actually think Chase and Higgins owe everything to Burrow and wouldn't be good WRs if they were playing elsewhere. You really are a special kind of fucking stupid aren't you?

No, Marvin Harrison and Reggie Wayne don't owe everything to Peyton Manning, either. But neither of them would've ascended to the heights they did without him. Ja'Marr Chase would've been dominant anywhere he went, but I do think he's better because he's with Burrow.

The dude threw for 66%, 4,100 yards, and 25/8 in his 2nd year. He had a very good year. Face it, you're wrong. Just admit it.

He had a bad first half and a fluke second half of the season, the Dallas game being a perfect example of that. He still can't read a defense or make an anticipation throw. You can pump a completion percentage up by doing a lot of screens, quick reads, and short pick plays, all things that Lawrence has never struggled with. But if he can't make a defense pay for the coverage they choose because he can't decipher it and make the correct read, defenses will just force him to stay in the pocket and beat them with his arm, which he won't be able to. I still see no evidence that Trevor Lawrence can operate within the structure of the offense when that structure requires him to make a full field read and throw the ball with anticipation.

Do you honestly think Wilson has no responsibility at all in being a bust?

I don't know that I'd call him a bust yet, certainly a disappointment to this point. I know he needs to get out of the Jets organization in all likelihood to succeed at this point. Are his disappointing results on him on some level? They have to be, he's the one creating the results. I don't think the Jets have done his development any favors along the way, though, and he would be looked at even worse than he is now if he pulled a Russell Wilson and hired his own coaching staff.

You seem to think Fields is a complete stud and franchise QB while Hurts isn't. That's what Hurts rushing yards have to do with it. I can't figure out why you think this way other than you're a fan of Fields and not Hurts.

I'm not necessarily a fan of Fields or not a fan of Hurts. You asked different things about both of them. I don't think Hurts has the ability to be in the Top 5 of QBs in the NFL long term, and he'd have a hard time maintaining a top 10 spot. I think Fields could get there at some point, but honestly it would involve putting a better supporting cast around him and having him try to do his best Lamar Jackson imitation less.

Holy shit Justin Fields is fucking Michael Jordan now! LMAO!!!!!!

Lol don't Bears fans wish? It was an allegory to illustrate that just because a take is unpopular at the time doesn't mean it's wrong. And the closest thing the NFL has had to Michael Jordan is Peyton Manning.

BTW: I doubt the Rockets are too upset over drafting Olajuwon since he's in the HOF and they did win multiple championships under him.

This is missing the point (see above), but I'm pretty sure they would've been happier with six championships rather than two.

10 QBs that will be better than Hurts in 2023? Let's do this in tiers.

My comments bolded below.

For the most part, I'm just going to agree to disagree here on the ones you disagreed on. I only have 2 points in response:

1) I never said Murray was a Top 10 QB or junk. I will say he probably hasn't lived up to the lofty expectations of a #1 overall pick, evidenced by the fact that the Cardinals were hesitant to extend him. But there was also a reason that they finally did give him a 5 year, $230.5 million extension. He's a player who has been in MVP discussions in the past. It's not out of the realm of possibility for him to return to that form.

2) Interestingly enough, it was our board's own Lawrence Owen that convinced me that Daniel Jones was a possibility. Jones also started using his legs more this year, but more importantly continued his longstanding trend of getting better at protecting the football. He also had a very poor supporting cast outside of Saquon Barkley last season. If he got some better weapons and continued to take care of the ball well, a 4,500 total yard, 35 total TD season wouldn't be out of the question, and that would likely be better than Hurts, considering that was basically 2022 Hurts's stat line and I am anticipating regression from that.

[IndyNorm]

No, Marvin Harrison and Reggie Wayne don't owe everything to Peyton Manning, either. But neither of them would've ascended to the heights they did without him. Ja'Marr Chase would've been dominant anywhere he went, but I do think he's better because he's with Burrow.

Glad you're starting to come back to Earth and make some sense.

He had a bad first half and a fluke second half of the season, the Dallas game being a perfect example of that. He still can't read a defense or make an anticipation throw. You can pump a completion percentage up by doing a lot of screens, quick reads, and short pick plays, all things that Lawrence has never struggled with. But if he can't make a defense pay for the coverage they choose because he can't decipher it and make the correct read, defenses will just force him to stay in the pocket and beat them with his arm, which he won't be able to. I still see no evidence that Trevor Lawrence can operate within the structure of the offense when that structure requires him to make a full field read and throw the ball with anticipation.

His bad first half I'm sure had a lot to do w/ the hangover from the Urban Meyer dumpster fire of '21. Then once he got comfortable w/ Pederson's system and regained his confidence he took off. And I'm sorry, but you just can't luck your way into the type of production he put up this past year.

I don't know that I'd call him a bust yet, certainly a disappointment to this point. I know he needs to get out of the Jets organization in all likelihood to succeed at this point. Are his disappointing results on him on some level? They have to be, he's the one creating the results. I don't think the Jets have done his development any favors along the way, though, and he would be looked at even worse than he is now if he pulled a Russell Wilson and hired his own coaching staff.


As it stands now he's a bust of Leaflike magnitude. Do agree that the Jets probably didn't do him any favors (other than add some nice weapons in the offseason), and that he needs to go to another team if he's going to turn things around.


I'm not necessarily a fan of Fields or not a fan of Hurts. You asked different things about both of them. I don't think Hurts has the ability to be in the Top 5 of QBs in the NFL long term, and he'd have a hard time maintaining a top 10 spot. I think Fields could get there at some point, but honestly it would involve putting a better supporting cast around him and having him try to do his best Lamar Jackson imitation less.


I think we've beaten this horse to death. Obviously I'm higher on Hurts than you are and you're much higher on Fields than I am. We'll just have to agree to disagree.

Lol don't Bears fans wish? It was an allegory to illustrate that just because a take is unpopular at the time doesn't mean it's wrong. And the closest thing the NFL has had to Michael Jordan is Peyton Manning.

I know what you were getting at. I was being a smartass. Also, my comment on you being the only person on the planet who would take Fields over Lawrence is as of today than as of draft day (although it's probably correct back then as well). While they both struggled their rookie years, Lawrence was head and shoulders much better in his 2nd year with the arrow pointing further up than Fields.

This is missing the point (see above), but I'm pretty sure they would've been happier with six championships rather than two.

Yeah, I know. Just had to stick up for Hakeem and the Rockets. I'm not a fan or anything, but IMO if a team drafts someone who has a HOF career and brings them multiple championships then it's not really a mistake no matter on what they missed out on. Now Portland drafting Sam Bowie, THAT was a mistake.

For the most part, I'm just going to agree to disagree here on the ones you disagreed on. I only have 2 points in response:

1) I never said Murray was a Top 10 QB or junk. I will say he probably hasn't lived up to the lofty expectations of a #1 overall pick, evidenced by the fact that the Cardinals were hesitant to extend him. But there was also a reason that they finally did give him a 5 year, $230.5 million extension. He's a player who has been in MVP discussions in the past. It's not out of the realm of possibility for him to return to that form.


Junk was paraphrasing and exaggerating, but here's what you said about him when arguing that Lincoln Riley QBs don't make it in the NFL:

the Cardinals hesitantly and almost begrudgingly resigned Kyler Murray, originally putting a film study clause in his contract, he seems disappointing as well.


Obviously, not a glowing endorsement. Then you listed 14 QBs you think will be better than Hurts next year w/ Murray being one of them. So maybe you don't think he's a top 10 QB, but you at least think he's in that range.

A big reason why Murray was selected #1 overall and given his extension is b/c of the man crush Cliff Kingsbury has had on him since Murray was in HS. Most of what I read going into the '19 draft was that mostly unanimous consensus around the league was that Murray was nowhere near the #1 overall pick, but the Cardinals thought he was due to said man crush. Similar w/ his extension.

And yes, Murray played pretty well his first couple of years and was in the MVP conversation for the first half of '21. Then his play completely fell off and he obviously had a bad year last year. Could be wrong, but I think he's going to struggle at least next year w/ a new coaching staff.


2) Interestingly enough, it was our board's own Lawrence Owen that convinced me that Daniel Jones was a possibility. Jones also started using his legs more this year, but more importantly continued his longstanding trend of getting better at protecting the football. He also had a very poor supporting cast outside of Saquon Barkley last season. If he got some better weapons and continued to take care of the ball well, a 4,500 total yard, 35 total TD season wouldn't be out of the question, and that would likely be better than Hurts, considering that was basically 2022 Hurts's stat line and I am anticipating regression from that.

Jones definitely improved considerably last year, but that took him from being a total bust to maybe he might work out status. He'll have to make a similar if not bigger leap in '23 to have a better year than Hurts, which I don't think he has in him.


Anyway, to put an end to the pissing contest here's what I propose: a gentlemen's bet where Hurts has a better year in '23 than half of the QBs you listed in your maybe group. The loser has to post a thread on here stating that they were wrong and eat their crow. Obviously if serious injuries come into play then the bet's off.

Also, we can the same bet with Lawrence vs. Fields for next year.

You in for either of them?

[Lov2fish]

Anyway, to put an end to the pissing contest here's what I propose: a gentlemen's bet where Hurts has a better year in '23 than half of the QBs you listed in your maybe group. The loser has to post a thread on here stating that they were wrong and eat their crow. Obviously if serious injuries come into play then the bet's off.

Also, we can the same bet with Lawrence vs. Fields for next year.

You in for either of them?

He won't. If he had to eat crow for how many times his assessment of talent was way off he would be 350 lbs. I said Fields would bust. He will, he is a one trick pony and he isn't playing cupcakes every week. They (DC'S) will have him dialed in for 23 season.

I said if they put a few pieces around Lawrence he would dominate AFC south for the foreseeable future. Bet my assessment is more spot on.

[IndyNorm]

He won't. If he had to eat crow for how many times his assessment of talent was way off he would be 350 lbs. I said Fields would bust. He will, he is a one trick pony and he isn't playing cupcakes every week. They (DC'S) will have him dialed in for 23 season.

I said if they put a few pieces around Lawrence he would dominate AFC south for the foreseeable future. Bet my assessment is more spot on.

Figured he wouldn't. Next time it looks like we're going to get into a pissing contest I'll just lead off with that and save myself the time and headache of trying to reason with him :D

[Dewey 5]

I am officially on the AR15 bandwagon. Swing big or go home. This kid has HUGE upside

Same. We would have to give up way too much to move up for Stroud. I'm firmly on the AR15 train.

[JAFF]

I'd gladly give them the 4th pick, Taylor, and Leonard, get Stroud, and keep next year's 1. That's the best of all worlds IMO.

You cant improve the Colts by trading away the best talent for possible improvements with draft picks. Taylor would be a huge help to a rookie Qb. I dont understand how losing pro bowl talent can improve the team.

Has there been a player on the D that has made more plays than Leonard? Trading him doesnt make the team better. And both of them coming off injuries wont get squat.

[njcoltfan]

There definitely should be an argument forum !!!!!!!!!!

[Dam8610]

You cant improve the Colts by trading away the best talent for possible improvements with draft picks. Taylor would be a huge help to a rookie Qb. I dont understand how losing pro bowl talent can improve the team.

Has there been a player on the D that has made more plays than Leonard? Trading him doesnt make the team better. And both of them coming off injuries wont get squat.

It's a better option than giving up the massive amounts of draft capital I'm seeing as potential trades online. I'd rather give up those two players, good as they are, than give up this year's entire Day 1 and Day 2 and draft picks (plural) next year including next year's 1 and in some cases an additional Day 2 pick. Now, if the trade is something somewhat reasonable like what Matt Miller proposed (4, 35, this year's 4, next year's 3), give up the draft capital instead, but there comes a point where the players are cheaper than the draft capital, especially when you consider the baggage they come with.

[Colts And Orioles]

There definitely should be an argument forum !!!!!!!!!!





o


There is ...... it's called "Indianapolis Colts Discission."

o

[JAFF]

There definitely should be an argument forum !!!!!!!!!!

Any conversation with Dam

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ohDB5gbtaEQ

[ChaosTheory]

Any conversation with Dam

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ohDB5gbtaEQ

No, it's not.

[JAFF]

No, it's not.

Stop contradicting me!

[Colts And Orioles]

o


Former Ohio State Star Reportedly Has NFL World ‘Buzzing’ at Combine

(By Lauren Merola)

https://athlonsports.com/nfl/former-ohio-state-star-reportedly-has-nfl-world-buzzing-at-combine

o

[Oldcolt]

This guy has become my slight favorite among the four top QBs.

[rm1369]

This guy has become my slight favorite among the four top QBs.

Agreed. He has the least concerning “issues” IMO and still has plenty of room to grow. Basically he seems to have the lowest floor with probably the second highest ceiling - behind maybe AR. And AR is a huge gamble. I wouldn’t necessarily be upset if the team went with any of the other 3 guys, but with what I have seen Stroud would be my choice.

[Dewey 5]

This guy has become my slight favorite among the four top QBs.

Ballard is going to have to be aggressive for a change & trade up & fast. Two things he is not known for

[rm1369]

Ballard is going to have to be aggressive for a change & trade up & fast. Two things he is not known for

It all depends on their evaluations. If there is a clear cut guy then I agree - go get him. But if their evaluations are close then stay put and save the future picks. I prefer Stroud, but I can be talked into any of them. So I’d stay at 4 and take the best available.

[Dewey 5]

It all depends on their evaluations. If there is a clear cut guy then I agree - go get him. But if their evaluations are close then stay put and save the future picks. I prefer Stroud, but I can be talked into any of them. So I’d stay at 4 and take the best available.

Ballard would love you. It’s time to be aggressive. Colts been fucking around with the qb position far too long.

[rm1369]

Ballard would love you. It’s time to be aggressive. Colts been fucking around with the qb position far too long.

That’s doubtful. I’ve been probably his longest standing critic on this board - I’ve consistently criticized his lack of aggressiveness since year 2. But you don’t trade 3 first rounders for a marginal difference in evaluation. And that’s reportedly what Chicago expects 2023, 2024, and 2025 first rounders. If they see Stroud (or anyone else) as head and shoulders above the others (and a true franchise QB) then ok, be aggressive. I just don’t currently see that kind of separation between them.

[Dewey 5]

That’s doubtful. I’ve been probably his longest standing critic on this board - I’ve consistently criticized his lack of aggressiveness since year 2. But you don’t trade 3 first rounders for a marginal difference in evaluation. And that’s reportedly what Chicago expects 2023, 2024, and 2025 first rounders. If they see Stroud (or anyone else) as head and shoulders above the others (and a true franchise QB) then ok, be aggressive. I just don’t currently see that kind of separation between them.

They are going to have to trade up to 3. Best case is Texans trade with Bears & we trade with Arizona. Texans take Young & we can choose between Stroud or Richardson. I just think Stoud is going one but We’ll see.

[apballin]

I’ll go on record and join Dam here after the interview and combine Stroud is my first choice followed by Richardson

[Dewey 5]

I’ll go on record and join Dam here after the interview and combine Stroud is my first choice followed by Richardson

Chances Ballard fucks this up by staying put at 4. 100%

[Colts And Orioles]

o


College football commentator and analyst Joel Klatt says that Buckeye Nation is remorseless towards the Buckeyes, particularly the head-coach and quarterback positions.



Is Ohio State QB CFB’s Most ‘Pressure-Packed’ Position ???

(By Caleb Spinner)

https://www.si.com/college/ohiostate/news/ohio-state-buckeyes-quarterback-joel-klatt-cj-stroud

o

[Colts And Orioles]

o


Stroud discusses the strengths of his game, and an area of improvement in it, last week at the NFL Combine in Indianapolis.



Ohio State’s C.J. Stroud Makes His Pitch

(By J.J. Stankevitz)

https://www.colts.com/news/cj-stroud-nfl-combine-draft-ohio-state-quarterback-pick-scouting-report

o

[Lov2fish]

Stroud is not worth any future draft capital that includes more than this years 1 and next years 2nd. & 4th. maybe. Three spaces does not equal two additional first rounders for a QB with just as high a chance to bust as be franchise. The guy on this board chanting to trade everything for him also said Jones would be a star and Goldielocks in Jacksonville will bust. I said just the opposite then, and I am sticking to my assertion this draft as well. Stay pat at 4 and take Levis and give up nothing else. If I am wrong I will own it and take my ball busting like a man.

Richardson is the most gifted athlete in this class and there is no argument against it. His athletic ability and intelligence are not enough to offset his low percentage on completions. Everyone see's the highlights, but it is the same fucking loop every time. Why is that? It is cause his lowlights are atrocious. Perfectly clean pocket and he misses high, low and throws picks. It is on film, but none of the prognosticators are flashing those everywhere cause it makes them look incompetent.

Young, if we was 6'3" and weighed 225 or bigger every argument for others would be moot. He is just not going to have a lasting career in this league. OC is going to call plays that include a QB option to run, or downright draw a play that he runs. He is just not built to take unnecessary hits!

[YDFL Commish]

Stroud is not worth any future draft capital that includes more than this years 1 and next years 2nd. & 4th. maybe. Three spaces does not equal two additional first rounders for a QB with just as high a chance to bust as be franchise. The guy on this board chanting to trade everything for him also said Jones would be a star and Goldielocks in Jacksonville will bust. I said just the opposite then, and I am sticking to my assertion this draft as well. Stay pat at 4 and take Levis and give up nothing else. If I am wrong I will own it and take my ball busting like a man.

Richardson is the most gifted athlete in this class and there is no argument against it. His athletic ability and intelligence are not enough to offset his low percentage on completions. Everyone see's the highlights, but it is the same fucking loop every time. Why is that? It is cause his lowlights are atrocious. Perfectly clean pocket and he misses high, low and throws picks. It is on film, but none of the prognosticators are flashing those everywhere cause it makes them look incompetent.

Young, if we was 6'3" and weighed 225 or bigger every argument for others would be moot. He is just not going to have a lasting career in this league. OC is going to call plays that include a QB option to run, or downright draw a play that he runs. He is just not built to take unnecessary hits!

I totally agree with you that no QB is worth trading up for a very reasonable price.

But I would not take Levis at 4. I would prefer to trade back and take Hooker.

[Lov2fish]

I totally agree with you that no QB is worth trading up for a very reasonable price.

But I would not take Levis at 4. I would prefer to trade back and take Hooker.

Not opposed to that either. I have McKee and Hooker as dead even pretty much. Hooker gets the slight edge on arm strength. Other than that I would not be unhappy if that is how it went.

Trading for the 1st. pick is out the window anyway. Carolina just traded with Chicago for the pick. Not sure the terms yet, but just heard.

[JAFF]

Chances Ballard fucks this up by staying put at 4. 100%

Giving up 3 first round draft choices on anyone not named Manning is crazy.

[Colts And Orioles]

o


I like Stroud.

I would love for CJ Stroud-to-Parris Campbell to become a thing, with the 2 former Buckeyes making a name for themselves with the Colts.

o
o


I was on the Stroud bandwagon when this thread was started almost 3 months ago, and I still am ...... I don't think that he'll be available when we pick at #4 overall, but if we do get him, I'm a believer.

o

[YDFL Commish]

Well, I've fallen off of that wagon and have returned to Levis.

[Colts And Orioles]

o


I was on the Stroud bandwagon when this thread was started almost 3 months ago, and I still am ...... I don't think that he'll be available when we pick at #4 overall, but if we do get him, I'm a believer.

o
o


(9 MONTHS LATER)



Deshaun Watson Says That He Told Texans Rookie Quarterback C.J. Stroud to 'Take Over H-Town'

(By Matt Young)

https://www.houstonchronicle.com/texas-sports-nation/texans/article/texans-cj-stroud-deshaun-watson-cam-newton-podcast-18617771.php


***************************


After watching C.J. Stroud and the Texans dismantle his Cleveland Browns in the playoffs last week, Deshaun Watson, who has been sidelined with a shoulder injury since November, didn’t show any outward bitterness, walking to midfield after the game to embrace Stroud.

Watson, who the Texans traded to Cleveland in 2022 after more than two dozen women accused him of sexual assault during massage sessions, didn’t speak to reporters after the game, but he appeared on his private quarterback coach Quincy Avery’s QB Unplugged podcast and gave his thoughts on Stroud and the Texans.

Former NFL MVP Cam Newton also appeared on the episode, which posted Friday, and asked the question everyone wanted to know: How did Watson feel having to stand there and watch Stroud play so well while the Houston crowd cheered wildly for him.

“It had to hurt your heart a little bit,” Avery said with a laugh.

Watson said that wasn’t the case.

“Nah, I ain’t even that type of dude to sit there and have any type of hate, because I’ve been there. I won a wild card game there, but the (stuff) just didn’t go our way. Business is business and we parted ways,” Watson said.

Watson and Stroud are friendly because they both have David Mulugheta as their agent, and they worked out together with Avery in the offseason in California.

“From Day One, I’ve always been like — right when he got drafted — 'Take over H-Town, it’s your city now. Anything you need, you got it,'” Watson said. “I’ve always been that big bro.”

Stroud, who will become just the sixth rookie quarterback to start in a conference championship game if he finds a way to beat the Ravens on Saturday, is playing as well as any quarterback in the league according to Avery.

Watson agrees.

“You can tell the moment never gets too big for him,” Watson said. “You can tell he’s running an offense the way he wants to run it and everybody else around him is making plays.”

Newton took the praise to another level, saying Stroud is playing so well, he’s past Rookie of the Year talk.

“Honestly speaking, you let the (guy) win another damn game like he just did, he ain’t just talking about Rookie of the Year, he’s talking about league MVP,” said Newton, with Watson adding "Facts" in the background. “This (guy) is playing out of his mind right now.”

o

[albany ed]

Well, he had a great year, but it's over now.

[Colts And Orioles]

Well, he had a great year, ) but it's over now.





o


Because he used to love her ...... but it's all over now.

o

[Discflinger]

Ummmmmm.......Speaking of indiana.......Axel was too cool. I used to love her..

[CletusPyle]

Stroud had a great year and I am not trying to take anything away from him, but Nico Collins is a vacuum cleaner for poorly thrown balls!

[Racehorse]

Stroud had a great year and I am not trying to take anything away from him, but Nico Collins is a vacuum cleaner for poorly thrown balls!

He is probably the main reason they made the playoffs in week 18. The throwaway that he caught inexplicably gave them a huge boost.