So....thoughts of trading up for the #1 pick?

[Ironshaft]

Chicago has their "franchise" QB in Justin Fields. 2 more years on the rookie contract plus the possibility of the 5th year option as a former 1st round pick.

Colts will have anywhere from the 3rd (if both DEN and ARI lose) to the 5th pick of the 2023 NFL draft.

How much would it take to trade up to #1 overall in order to take the QB of their choice?

Or, really, what would you be willing to trade for the chance to pick #1 overall?

[nate505]

Is there much of a difference between the top 3 to trade up for, or if you're the Colts do you just pick the best remaining out of Young/Stroud/Levis.

[Racehorse]

I haven't gotten the values memorized, but I would trade our first and the second from Washington to move up.

[ukcolt]

We don't have a second rounder from Washington, it's a third round pick, Wentz didn't fulfil his end of the playing deal!

[IndyNorm]

I haven't gotten the values memorized, but I would trade our first and the second from Washington to move up.

Unfortunately we're only going to get a 3rd from Wash b/c of Wentz both sucking and getting hurt.

[Brylok]

I have no idea what's going on in the Colts organization anymore. There's zero identity and zero leadership. They're just adrift.

[Brylok]

I think we're in a worse spot than most people think. I hope not though.

[Dam8610]

Chicago has their "franchise" QB in Justin Fields. 2 more years on the rookie contract plus the possibility of the 5th year option as a former 1st round pick.

Colts will have anywhere from the 3rd (if both DEN and ARI lose) to the 5th pick of the 2023 NFL draft.

How much would it take to trade up to #1 overall in order to take the QB of their choice?

Or, really, what would you be willing to trade for the chance to pick #1 overall?

About what the Giants traded for Rivers. That should get it done. Obviously less would be better. But now that the Texans aren't the #1 pick, getting the #1 pick should be the only priority of the offseason.

[Dam8610]

Is there much of a difference between the top 3 to trade up for, or if you're the Colts do you just pick the best remaining out of Young/Stroud/Levis.

Huge difference. Stroud has all the tools of a franchise QB with the size to make it work in the NFL. Young has all the tools of a franchise QB but may be too short. Levis has huge bust potential with limited upside.

Stroud>Young>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Levis

[Lov2fish]

I would not add any additional picks to move up in this draft for any of the 3 potential top QB's. They all have a higher risk of bust than franchise QB. Trading future stock is stupid for any of those three.

[ChaosTheory]

About what the Giants traded for Rivers. That should get it done. Obviously less would be better. But now that the Texans aren't the #1 pick, getting the #1 pick should be the only priority of the offseason.

Looked it up. So that would be trading 2022 1st rounders with CHI, plus a 2022 3rd, and our 1st + 5th in 2023.

Of course, in 2004, NYG's 1st was the #4 overall and another franchise QB.

[WaynesWorld87]

Huge difference. Stroud has all the tools of a franchise QB with the size to make it work in the NFL. Young has all the tools of a franchise QB but may be too short. Levis has huge bust potential with limited upside.

Stroud>Young>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Levis
This. While I'm not fully sold on either of Stroud or Young as being franchise-changing QBs, they're definitely a tier/notch above Levis in this year's class.

We know the Bears and Cardinals won't draft a QB. The wildcard is the Seahawks...are they ok with Geno Smith as their QB going forward?

Keeping a very close eye on this Broncos/Chargers game. Really need the Broncos to win. That slots us in at #4 and should guarantee us one of Stroud or Young. A quick, cursory Google searching of mocks seem to have Young as the first QB off the board right now and the majority of the ones I viewed had the Seahawks taking a defensive player, not a QB.

[ChaosTheory]

This. While I'm not fully sold on either of Stroud or Young as being franchise-changing QBs, they're definitely a tier/notch above Levis in this year's class.

We know the Bears and Cardinals won't draft a QB. The wildcard is the Seahawks...are they ok with Geno Smith as their QB going forward?

Keeping a very close eye on this Broncos/Chargers game. Really need the Broncos to win. That slots us in at #4 and should guarantee us one of Stroud or Young. A quick, cursory Google searching of mocks seem to have Young as the first QB off the board right now and the majority of the ones I viewed had the Seahawks taking a defensive player, not a QB.

Geno had a good year but he's 32 and tons of missed games.

It's looking like the Broncos are going to help us out. LAC pulling starters, too. We should have the #4 overall with CHI and ARZ not needing a QB.

Almost everyone has Young #1, Stroud #2.

[ChaosTheory]

Geno had a good year but he's 32 and tons of missed games.

It's looking like the Broncos are going to help us out. LAC pulling starters, too. We should have the #4 overall with CHI and ARZ not needing a QB.

Almost everyone has Young #1, Stroud #2.

Or I spoke too soon and the Broncos are going to blow it. 3 point lead now.

[Spike]

Or I spoke too soon and the Broncos are going to blow it. 3 point lead now.

Broncos won.

[ChaosTheory]

Whew. So we have the #4 pick locked up.

[Dam8610]

Geno had a good year but he's 32 and tons of missed games.

It's looking like the Broncos are going to help us out. LAC pulling starters, too. We should have the #4 overall with CHI and ARZ not needing a QB.

Almost everyone has Young #1, Stroud #2.

I'd comp Young to Russell Wilson and Stroud to Aaron Rodgers. Between that and the height is why I want Stroud.

[omahacolt]

hell no to trading up.


just sit tight and take whatever qb is there. unless the gm doesn't like him.

[Dewey 5]

Holder said he fully expects that Ballard will be back from everything he's heard. We're screwed.

[Lov2fish]

Holder said he fully expects that Ballard will be back from everything he's heard. We're screwed.

That means we get Carr and a right guard in the draft

[Oldcolt]

Not crazy about trading up. Most of the time you lose out. To state the obvious we need to come out of this draft with a starting QB. I am not saying we have to draft one, but you just cannot have a repeat of this crap. We are in a shitty situation with people at the controls that I can only pray get lucky. I have zero faith that they do it with talent.

[TheMugwump]

I'd comp Young to Russell Wilson and Stroud to Aaron Rodgers. Between that and the height is why I want Stroud.

You are out of your blooming mind.

Both these guys are more likely to bust than hit.

Not comping them, but it's like the 2018 draft. Baker, Darnold, Allen, Josh Rosen. Four of the top ten picks. Three lemons, one diamond. You want to be the guy who trades up for Stroud or Young, only to have Levis turn out to be Josh Allen, and not Ryan Leaf (not saying he is Allen-like, only that more top of the draft QB's bust than hit.)

I mean Jameis Winston and Marcus Mariota, Jarod Goff and Wentz, Mitch Trubisky, Mayfield and Darnold, Kyler Murray (maybe the best of this list, but still not really showing he's a franchise guy). 2020 was an exception with Joe Burrow, Tua, and Herbert all living up to/exceeding their pre-draft hype.

And to comp those two to Wilson (unless you mean this year's Wilson), and Aaron Freaking Rodgers, is insane.

And anyone who thinks it is a good idea to trade up to get one should be fired from their GM position immediately.

[Lov2fish]

I'd comp Young to Russell Wilson and Stroud to Aaron Rodgers. Between that and the height is why I want Stroud.

Stop comparing Stroud to Rogers, they don't correlate. When the pocket collapses Rogers doesn't shit the bed. When pressure is in his face Rogers completes more than 40% of his passes. Stroud only completes 40% of his passes under pressure. Just a hint, but in the NFL you are under constant pressure and the pocket doesn't hold up indefinitely.

Stroud is not a plug and play franchise QB. Just stop it, its asinine.

[WaynesWorld87]

So we're #4.

Bears - Will Anderson
Texans - Young or Stroud
Cardinals - Myles Murphy or Jalen Carter ??
Colts - Young or Stroud

I'm still not sold on either Stroud or Young being "can't miss" type of QB prospects, but they're both better and provide more promise than anything else we've had in quite some time. I think I'd prefer Stroud over Young, but with it feeling like both have more bust than boom potential, I'm not sure it really matters.

Will be interesting since it appears both will be drafted to the same division which will create even more intrigue with all of this for the next several years.

[Hoopsdoc]

So we're #4.

Bears - Will Anderson
Texans - Young or Stroud
Cardinals - Myles Murphy or Jalen Carter ??
Colts - Young or Stroud

I'm still not sold on either Stroud or Young being "can't miss" type of QB prospects, but they're both better and provide more promise than anything else we've had in quite some time. I think I'd prefer Stroud over Young, but with it feeling like both have more bust than boom potential, I'm not sure it really matters.

Will be interesting since it appears both will be drafted to the same division which will create even more intrigue with all of this for the next several years.

I think there’s a decent chance that either the Bears or Cardinals will trade back.

So it’s not as simple as the Colts are at number 4 so they’ll get one of the 2 top quarterbacks.

Also, Arizona will fire their coach and who knows if the new coach will be on board with Murray. He may want his own guy.

[ChaosTheory]

So we're #4.

Bears - Will Anderson
Texans - Young or Stroud
Cardinals - Myles Murphy or Jalen Carter ??
Colts - Young or Stroud

I'm still not sold on either Stroud or Young being "can't miss" type of QB prospects, but they're both better and provide more promise than anything else we've had in quite some time. I think I'd prefer Stroud over Young, but with it feeling like both have more bust than boom potential, I'm not sure it really matters.

Will be interesting since it appears both will be drafted to the same division which will create even more intrigue with all of this for the next several years.

If there were no such thing as trades, that all lines up. And they likely take Stroud/Young. And maybe they really like one or both of these kids and really make sure they get one...

BUT... There sure seems to be a lot of uncertainty with these kids. And consider that our GM has a known philosophy of A.) not reaching with draft picks, B.) not paying "A" prices (including draft capital) for "B" players, and C.) he clearly values trading back and accumulating picks.

On top of all that... realize that there is a slew of QB-needy teams lined up right behind us:

#5 SEA
#6 DET (maybe)
#7 LV
#8 ATL
#9 CAR

These teams might like these kids a lot more than us. And further, they might be willing to make one of these ludicrous trades to move up and get one. In that case, I really wouldn't be surprised if we sit tight and take BPA.

I mean, shit, I actually don't know if I would be surprised if Ballard is the one that trades out of #4 for a bunch of picks.

[Dewey 5]

I think there’s a decent chance that either the Bears or Cardinals will trade back.

So it’s not as simple as the Colts are at number 4 so they’ll get one of the 2 top quarterbacks.

Also, Arizona will fire their coach and who knows if the new coach will be on board with Murray. He may want his own guy.

I think they are stuck with Murray. He signed a new contract before the season.

[Dam8610]

You are out of your blooming mind.

Both these guys are more likely to bust than hit.

Not comping them, but it's like the 2018 draft. Baker, Darnold, Allen, Josh Rosen. Four of the top ten picks. Three lemons, one diamond. You want to be the guy who trades up for Stroud or Young, only to have Levis turn out to be Josh Allen, and not Ryan Leaf (not saying he is Allen-like, only that more top of the draft QB's bust than hit.)

I mean Jameis Winston and Marcus Mariota, Jarod Goff and Wentz, Mitch Trubisky, Mayfield and Darnold, Kyler Murray (maybe the best of this list, but still not really showing he's a franchise guy). 2020 was an exception with Joe Burrow, Tua, and Herbert all living up to/exceeding their pre-draft hype.

And to comp those two to Wilson (unless you mean this year's Wilson), and Aaron Freaking Rodgers, is insane.

And anyone who thinks it is a good idea to trade up to get one should be fired from their GM position immediately.

Obviously those are ceiling comps. I don't think Young is guaranteed to come in and be Russell Wilson, nor do I think Stroud is guaranteed to come in and be Aaron Rodgers. I just think that, if they hit their ceilings, those will be the QBs whose play style resembles theirs the most.

Also, of course drafting a franchise QB is a gamble, always is, always will be, but it's a gamble you HAVE to take if you want to be successful in the NFL. You HAVE to draft one and HAVE to hit on him to be a successful franchise. That's just how it works. No way to avoid that in the modern NFL.

Stop comparing Stroud to Rogers, they don't correlate. When the pocket collapses Rogers doesn't shit the bed. When pressure is in his face Rogers completes more than 40% of his passes. Stroud only completes 40% of his passes under pressure. Just a hint, but in the NFL you are under constant pressure and the pocket doesn't hold up indefinitely.

Stroud is not a plug and play franchise QB. Just stop it, its asinine.

I haven't seen this concern you keep bringing up. In fact in the Georgia game he stood in against pressure and made a lot of good throws, and escaped pressure often. Further, the other 5 games I watched of him outside of watching the Georgia game live showed me his ability to escape pressure, roll left or right, keep his eyes downfield, and create plays on the run. That's what led me to the Rodgers comp, because he was the only other QB I could think of who did that with such consistency. So unless you have a game to establish this "folds under pressure" claim you have, I'll just agree to disagree with you on that point, as there is no evidence of it, and quite a bit of evidence of the opposite.

[IndyNorm]

That means we get Carr and a right guard in the draft

Don't forget at least 1 if not 2 DE projects who didn't produce in college but have "great traits" :cool:

[IndyNorm]

If there were no such thing as trades, that all lines up. And they likely take Stroud/Young. And maybe they really like one or both of these kids and really make sure they get one...

BUT... There sure seems to be a lot of uncertainty with these kids. And consider that our GM has a known philosophy of A.) not reaching with draft picks, B.) not paying "A" prices (including draft capital) for "B" players, and C.) he clearly values trading back and accumulating picks.

On top of all that... realize that there is a slew of QB-needy teams lined up right behind us:

#5 SEA
#6 DET (maybe)
#7 LV
#8 ATL
#9 CAR

These teams might like these kids a lot more than us. And further, they might be willing to make one of these ludicrous trades to move up and get one. In that case, I really wouldn't be surprised if we sit tight and take BPA.

I mean, shit, I actually don't know if I would be surprised if Ballard is the one that trades out of #4 for a bunch of picks.

You're probably right that if we want Young or Stroud we will likely have to trade up to get him b/c the Bears will likely trade down to a team that will draft one of the 2 with Houston choosing the other. If we're good w/ taking Levis then we can stay put I think. At least as things stand now, but a lot can change between now and draft day.

[Dam8610]

You're probably right that if we want Young or Stroud we will likely have to trade up to get him b/c the Bears will likely trade down to a team that will draft one of the 2 with Houston choosing the other. If we're good w/ taking Levis then we can stay put I think. At least as things stand now, but a lot can change between now and draft day.

The Colts are the team in the best position to make that jump trade, and should secure that pick and get their choice of the two ASAP.

[CletusPyle]

Will Levis with OSU's OL and receivers > CJ Stroud

The more I see of both Max Duggan and Stetson Bennett the more I like them, both will likely be there in the 3rd round if the Colts decide to pass on the top 5 QBs, but you have to believe one of the 5 is going to be great, but which one?

[Dam8610]

Will Levis with OSU's OL and receivers > CJ Stroud

The more I see of both Max Duggan and Stetson Bennett the more I like them, both will likely be there in the 3rd round if the Colts decide to pass on the top 5 QBs, but you have to believe one of the 5 is going to be great, but which one?

Stroud's LT gave up pressure constantly. Stroud also put up more points in the second half against the best defense in college football (13) than they gave up on average for the entire season against the best conference in football (12.8). That, of course, was after he lost his best WR, RB, and TE.

I think people have prospect fatigue with Young and Stroud. Watch them play, you'll see why people think they are franchise QBs. I don't see it with Levis.

Also, you're crazy if you think Stetson Bennett will be a franchise NFL QB. He's too old, he'll be like 26 as a rookie, that's supposed to be right about when NFL QBs start their prime.

[apballin]

Stroud's LT gave up pressure constantly. Stroud also put up more points in the second half against the best defense in college football (13) than they gave up on average for the entire season against the best conference in football (12.8). That, of course, was after he lost his best WR, RB, and TE.

I think people have prospect fatigue with Young and Stroud. Watch them play, you'll see why people think they are franchise QBs. I don't see it with Levis.

Also, you're crazy if you think Stetson Bennett will be a franchise NFL QB. He's too old, he'll be like 26 as a rookie, that's supposed to be right about when NFL QBs start their prime.

See I think people are overrating that Georgia game. Stroud plays with a clean pocket majority of the time. After Harrison got injured he didn’t do shit. He beat 2 ranked opponents all year. Levis reminds me of Big Ben, gritty gutsy tough athletic dude with a big arm

[Dam8610]

See I think people are overrating that Georgia game. Stroud plays with a clean pocket majority of the time. After Harrison got injured he didn’t do shit. He beat 2 ranked opponents all year. Levis reminds me of Big Ben, gritty gutsy tough athletic dude with a big arm

Wow, you're reaching quite a bit here. "He was up against the best defense in college football and didn't have his top WR, RB, or TE, but it's not THAT impressive that he put up in one half what that defense gave up per game on the season." Really? How is that not impressive? He also got them in position to win the game BY DOING THE THING EVERYONE SAID HE WOULDN'T DO! Not his fault the kicker missed.

[Racehorse]

hell no to trading up.


just sit tight and take whatever qb is there. unless the gm doesn't like him.

I mostly agree, but if we do trade up, I would not give the farm.

[apballin]

Wow, you're reaching quite a bit here. "He was up against the best defense in college football and didn't have his top WR, RB, or TE, but it's not THAT impressive that he put up in one half what that defense gave up per game on the season." Really? How is that not impressive? He also got them in position to win the game BY DOING THE THING EVERYONE SAID HE WOULDN'T DO! Not his fault the kicker missed.

How’d he do against Michigan? He doesn’t do well vs pressure and that will not be the case in the NFL. He’s not gonna be able to stand behind a wall and throw to wide open guys. Again he beat …. 2 ranked opponents all year… 2. I look at the entire body of work not just 1 game

[JAFF]

No.

How many Qb playing right now were the first pick in the draft? Right now the 49ners have the last pick in the draft playing like a first rounder. Drew Brees went in the second round.

Im not suggesting the Colts go dumpster diving. They need help in several places. It will cost multiple players/picks to move up 1 or 2 spots. Is there a Brees in this draft? Trade down and gain more picks, while drafting a smart guy who has some flaws later in the first round?

[CletusPyle]

Stroud's LT gave up pressure constantly. Stroud also put up more points in the second half against the best defense in college football (13) than they gave up on average for the entire season against the best conference in football (12.8). That, of course, was after he lost his best WR, RB, and TE.

I think people have prospect fatigue with Young and Stroud. Watch them play, you'll see why people think they are franchise QBs. I don't see it with Levis.

Also, you're crazy if you think Stetson Bennett will be a franchise NFL QB. He's too old, he'll be like 26 as a rookie, that's supposed to be right about when NFL QBs start their prime.

OSU had the 4th ranked OL in college football, UK had the 33rd and that was generous! Stroud does not impress me that much in fact, I wouldn't be completely shocked if the Texans took Levis!

I wasn't suggesting that Bennett would be a permanent answer, but he is a winner and you play him next season and with a much stronger QB class next season maybe get your franchise guy and Bennett stays on as your #2? No way I would trade up for Stroud or Young, if Ballard does that he is a complete fool!

[YDFL Commish]

Stroud's LT gave up pressure constantly. Stroud also put up more points in the second half against the best defense in college football (13) than they gave up on average for the entire season against the best conference in football (12.8). That, of course, was after he lost his best WR, RB, and TE.

I think people have prospect fatigue with Young and Stroud. Watch them play, you'll see why people think they are franchise QBs. I don't see it with Levis.

Also, you're crazy if you think Stetson Bennett will be a franchise NFL QB. He's too old, he'll be like 26 as a rookie, that's supposed to be right about when NFL QBs start their prime.


Aren't you the one who said Mac Jones was going to be better than Trevor Lawrence? How has that worked out?

[HoosierinFL]

There is absolutely nothing to be gained by moving up in this draft, not from the 4 spot. If there was a generational talent there, maybe, but there isn't.

In fact, I'd be willing to trade down 3-4 spots if someone offered up a nice enough bounty.

[rm1369]

There is absolutely nothing to be gained by moving up in this draft, not from the 4 spot. If there was a generational talent there, maybe, but there isn't.

In fact, I'd be willing to trade down 3-4 spots if someone offered up a nice enough bounty.

If there is an obvious generational talent there you wouldn’t be able to swing the trade. That’s the issue - you aren’t going to trade up for a Manning or Luck level obvious talent. So you trust your scouts and evaluations. If you believe there is a franchise guy there you go get him. If you don’t or you have all 3 rated similarly you stay where you are. If you hate all three then you trade down - but you better find a QB of the future this off season. This “luck” into a QB while building a team is BS and has been BS since day one. You don’t fucking plan to “luck” into something- especially the most important and most sought after position in sports. Do your fucking homework, make a decision and be aggressive. If it fails, it fails. What they’ve been doing was damn near guaranteed to fail and has. It’s also creating a shit load of apathy and distrust in the fan base.

[ChaosTheory]

In fact, I'd be willing to trade down 3-4 spots if someone offered up a nice enough bounty.

I'm waiting for it. Heads will EXPLODE.

[Oldcolt]

There is absolutely nothing to be gained by moving up in this draft, not from the 4 spot. If there was a generational talent there, maybe, but there isn't.

In fact, I'd be willing to trade down 3-4 spots if someone offered up a nice enough bounty.

Not so sure about that. You are correct that moving up mostly does not work. If you know how to evaluate though it can, look at Mahones and KC. Problem is I don't think most of us trust the people making the decisions.

[ChoppedWood]

Mock has us going up to # 1 to get Young.
https://www.pff.com/news/draft-2023-nfl-mock-draft-five-qbs-first-round-colts-trade-bryce-young

If so, it's going to be a 10 year slog of complete shit. Dude has wonderful accuracy and is apparently a top notch man. His offensive line is ass. He will make some plays in year 1 that will remind us of Michael Vick and we'll be excited for year 2. Year 2 he will begin to have injury issues and by year 3 will be David Carr / Robert Griffin, so shell shocked and broken inside that by year 5, will be wearing a blazer with a mic in his hand calling our games instead of playing in them.

Man Irsay CANNOT go this route!

[Dam8610]

How’d he do against Michigan? He doesn’t do well vs pressure and that will not be the case in the NFL. He’s not gonna be able to stand behind a wall and throw to wide open guys. Again he beat …. 2 ranked opponents all year… 2. I look at the entire body of work not just 1 game

How did he do or how did Ohio State do? Ohio State did terribly because their run defense broke at the end of the game. Stroud did fine, threw for 349 and 2 TDs on 65% passing. Also had 2 INTs, but both of those were after the game was out of reach and he was trying to hero ball them back into it. Again, not really much of an argument here.

[Dam8610]

Mock has us going up to # 1 to get Young.
https://www.pff.com/news/draft-2023-nfl-mock-draft-five-qbs-first-round-colts-trade-bryce-young

If so, it's going to be a 10 year slog of complete shit. Dude has wonderful accuracy and is apparently a top notch man. His offensive line is ass. He will make some plays in year 1 that will remind us of Michael Vick and we'll be excited for year 2. Year 2 he will begin to have injury issues and by year 3 will be David Carr / Robert Griffin, so shell shocked and broken inside that by year 5, will be wearing a blazer with a mic in his hand calling our games instead of playing in them.

Man Irsay CANNOT go this route!

I wouldn't go up to 1 for Young, but I would for Stroud.

[apballin]

How did he do or how did Ohio State do? Ohio State did terribly because their run defense broke at the end of the game. Stroud did fine, threw for 349 and 2 TDs on 65% passing. Also had 2 INTs, but both of those were after the game was out of reach and he was trying to hero ball them back into it. Again, not really much of an argument here.

Look if we end up with Stroud I’m not gonna be upset believe that… the most important in all of this may be coach/ OC. Levis just screams Irsay/Ballard type of guy. I guess will see but if it’s up to Irsay he’ll be drafting Levis

[Dam8610]

Look if we end up with Stroud I’m not gonna be upset believe that… the most important in all of this may be coach/ OC. Levis just screams Irsay/Ballard type of guy. I guess will see but if it’s up to Irsay he’ll be drafting Levis

Hopefully Irsay will delegate to his smarter football people then, who will trade up for Stroud.

[apballin]

Hopefully Irsay will delegate to his smarter football people then, who will trade up for Stroud.

Unless those involved feel like Levis at 4 is just fine, how pissed will you be when they trade up to 1 and draft Levis?

[ChoppedWood]

I wouldn't go up to 1 for Young, but I would for Stroud.

I wouldn't move to 1 for either of them, just don't think they are worth the likely compensation. That said, I can at least legitimatize the move for Stroud, no way in hell on Young.

[Coltsalr]

I don’t love Bryce Young but I like him significantly more than Stroud/Levis. I’d trade what it takes to get #1 overall and bring in Harbaugh and hope for the best.

[CletusPyle]

Mock has us going up to # 1 to get Young.
https://www.pff.com/news/draft-2023-nfl-mock-draft-five-qbs-first-round-colts-trade-bryce-young

If so, it's going to be a 10 year slog of complete shit. Dude has wonderful accuracy and is apparently a top notch man. His offensive line is ass. He will make some plays in year 1 that will remind us of Michael Vick and we'll be excited for year 2. Year 2 he will begin to have injury issues and by year 3 will be David Carr / Robert Griffin, so shell shocked and broken inside that by year 5, will be wearing a blazer with a mic in his hand calling our games instead of playing in them.

Man Irsay CANNOT go this route!

That Mock draft makes no sense to me. I hope it is wrong! The only thing that might be right is the Texans taking Levis with the #2 pick. I still think there is a good chance they take Levis with the #2 even if Young is still on the board....only reason for the Colts to trade up to #1 is to get Levis!

[apballin]

Listen to JMV he had Holder on and he said Ballard definitely has a big ten bias and a lot of connections in the big ten so he could definitely see Ballard wanting Stroud. Also said he and the Bears GM are good friends so a move up is very plausible

[IndyNorm]

That Mock draft makes no sense to me. I hope it is wrong! The only thing that might be right is the Texans taking Levis with the #2 pick. I still think there is a good chance they take Levis with the #2 even if Young is still on the board....only reason for the Colts to trade up to #1 is to get Levis!

Agree. I don't see Stroud falling all the way to 7.

[apballin]

Wow, you're reaching quite a bit here. "He was up against the best defense in college football and didn't have his top WR, RB, or TE, but it's not THAT impressive that he put up in one half what that defense gave up per game on the season." Really? How is that not impressive? He also got them in position to win the game BY DOING THE THING EVERYONE SAID HE WOULDN'T DO! Not his fault the kicker missed.

So if Duggan lights up “the best defense “ does that discount Strouds performance or make you want to draft him now?

[ChaosTheory]

So if Duggan lights up “the best defense “...

Well, guess we don't have to worry about that anymore.

[Spike]

Well, guess we don't have to worry about that anymore.

65-7!!!!! Damn.

[Dam8610]

So if Duggan lights up “the best defense “ does that discount Strouds performance or make you want to draft him now?

I think it's pretty clear what the answer to this is.

[Dam8610]

I don’t love Bryce Young but I like him significantly more than Stroud/Levis. I’d trade what it takes to get #1 overall and bring in Harbaugh and hope for the best.

I like Bryce Young, but if he's 6'0" then Andrew Luck was 7'0". I watched Young's bowl game, saw him next to a WR who was listed on Alabama's athletics website as 6'0", and Young was noticeably shorter. If he measures well at the combine, I'd have him basically even with Stroud, but I need to see that he's not 5'7" 180 first.

[Colts And Orioles]

65-7 !!! Damn.





o


In a sense, boxing is more humane than football because the referee can stop the fight.

o

[apballin]

I think it's pretty clear what the answer to this is.

Yea after tonight it definitely made Strouds performance more impressive

[Coltsalr]

I like Bryce Young, but if he's 6'0" then Andrew Luck was 7'0". I watched Young's bowl game, saw him next to a WR who was listed on Alabama's athletics website as 6'0", and Young was noticeably shorter. If he measures well at the combine, I'd have him basically even with Stroud, but I need to see that he's not 5'7" 180 first.

If he could have a Russell Wilson like career, I’d certainly take it.

Stroud’s lack of ability to be mobile/stand under pressure/deal with less than ideal weapons scares me.

[albany ed]

There are no QBs in this years' draft that have the pedigree of a Peyton Manning or Andrew Luck or Trevor Lawrence. You could trade up, pick one and it's the other possible #1 that has a great career. Trade up if you're certain, stay where you are if you're not. I don't know what Ballard is thinking, but if I were the one making the decision, I'd stay at #4 and see what happens.

[MeSayDayo]

I tend to agree. What we can trust is that Ballard is going to do everything within his power and his scouting teams power to get this one right. Literally leave no rock unturned on any 3 of the QBs at the top.
This is why I doubt we see any sort of trade until after the combine and pro-days. No doubt, a lot of the overall evaluation of each player will come down to their interviews, wonderlic, private workouts and pro day showings.
There is going to be some differences....Young could have the fastest 40, but Levis may test off the charts in measurables and interview.
After this process and only after will we know how Ballard feels about the pick by his action or inaction. If he trades for #1 then he obviously loves one guy over the others. If he makes a smaller trade up to #3, I would imagine that he likes two of the three guys at the top. If he stands pat, I think he grades them about equally and will take whoever is left (or even trade that pick for a boatload, double down on next year and get someone like AR15 or Hooker, Bennett, etc)
I think a small trade up to 3 makes the most sense and protects us from losing out on all 3 guys if other teams feel inclined to trade into the top 3.
We just have to trust that our scouting team is good at what they do. If they make a trade for the #1 pick it will cost a ton (hoping it wont be all picks and includes a player or two of ours), but it also means that we feel very strongly about the player we take and he jumps out on film, Aced all the aforementioned testing.

[ChoppedWood]

Interesting discussion on 1st Take.

Apparently Chicago has interest in Young (why you would just come off a season where your arrow seems to be pointing up behind the greatest running performance ever by a big fast powerful QB who has a cannon but nothing to really work with in the WR department and look to transform behind an undersized guy in the pocket...?). So the discussion was staying at 1 and taking Young, but getting Colts # 4 and some other parts - probably Buckner and something else + additional draft picks for Fields.

It's interesting for discussion. I am convinced that our OL is so damn bad that at least for the next couple years we're going to have to have a QB that can utilize his legs to give us any chance at being competitive (and I still expect us to suck). But, let's say we get Fields, what does he get us to, maybe 8-9, 9-8 and a possible one and done, maybe get lucky and steal a PO game in the next 3 years? Is that worth it, will he be dead on his feet 3 years from now and we'll need a new guy already anyway just when our other younger guys are starting to peak?

I like Fields, I think with a good team around him, he can be at the low end of the Josh Allen register- but I think he needs a lot of good players around him and if he has another terrible OL like he has had in Chicago (which we are), he'll eventually be wasted potential.

[albany ed]

Interesting discussion on 1st Take.

Apparently Chicago has interest in Young (why you would just come off a season where your arrow seems to be pointing up behind the greatest running performance ever by a big fast powerful QB who has a cannon but nothing to really work with in the WR department and look to transform behind an undersized guy in the pocket...?). So the discussion was staying at 1 and taking Young, but getting Colts # 4 and some other parts - probably Buckner and something else + additional draft picks for Fields.

It's interesting for discussion. I am convinced that our OL is so damn bad that at least for the next couple years we're going to have to have a QB that can utilize his legs to give us any chance at being competitive (and I still expect us to suck). But, let's say we get Fields, what does he get us to, maybe 8-9, 9-8 and a possible one and done, maybe get lucky and steal a PO game in the next 3 years? Is that worth it, will he be dead on his feet 3 years from now and we'll need a new guy already anyway just when our other younger guys are starting to peak?

I like Fields, I think with a good team around him, he can be at the low end of the Josh Allen register- but I think he needs a lot of good players around him and if he has another terrible OL like he has had in Chicago (which we are), he'll eventually be wasted potential.

There is no way I see the Colts making that trade. Fields completion percentage was near the bottom, only Zach Wilson was lower. His QB rating was 25th in the league. Also, Buckner is one of the best at his position. Sure Fields can run, but running QBs have a short life span.

[Spike]

Interesting discussion on 1st Take.

Apparently Chicago has interest in Young (why you would just come off a season where your arrow seems to be pointing up behind the greatest running performance ever by a big fast powerful QB who has a cannon but nothing to really work with in the WR department and look to transform behind an undersized guy in the pocket...?). So the discussion was staying at 1 and taking Young, but getting Colts # 4 and some other parts - probably Buckner and something else + additional draft picks for Fields.

It's interesting for discussion. I am convinced that our OL is so damn bad that at least for the next couple years we're going to have to have a QB that can utilize his legs to give us any chance at being competitive (and I still expect us to suck). But, let's say we get Fields, what does he get us to, maybe 8-9, 9-8 and a possible one and done, maybe get lucky and steal a PO game in the next 3 years? Is that worth it, will he be dead on his feet 3 years from now and we'll need a new guy already anyway just when our other younger guys are starting to peak?

I like Fields, I think with a good team around him, he can be at the low end of the Josh Allen register- but I think he needs a lot of good players around him and if he has another terrible OL like he has had in Chicago (which we are), he'll eventually be wasted potential.

If I were the Bears organization, I would be saying the same thing whether I wanted Young or not for obvious reasons.

[Oldcolt]

Fields isn't worth the #4 pick. To move up to #1 will take two ones and probably two twos. It is a crap shoot anyway so I am definitely against it. Colts will give Derek Carr a long look, he is an above average QB which would be a huge upgrade from what we have been dealing with. Nothing excites me.

[Spike]

Fields isn't worth the #4 pick. To move up to #1 will take two ones and probably two twos. It is a crap shoot anyway so I am definitely against it. Colts will give Derek Carr a long look, he is an above average QB which would be a huge upgrade from what we have been dealing with. Nothing excites me.

Hell no on Derek Carr, just hell no. I would rather take a chance on Young, Stroud or Levis. Hopefully the Colts have learned their lesson on taking other team's QB rejects.

[Oldcolt]

Hell no on Derek Carr, just hell no. I would rather take a chance on Young, Stroud or Levis. Hopefully the Colts have learned their lesson on taking other team's QB rejects.

I agree with you on this but still believe they will look at Carr. A whole lot depends on who is our new head coach-I am more concerned about Ballard choosing this than a QB. Ballard totally shit the bed with McDaniels, and I mean totally. I have zero faith that he can pick a winner.

[ChoppedWood]

Talk on radio on Dakich former spot is that it's basically a given, we're giving Chicago whatever they want and the pick is Young. I am just perplexed as to why?

He's a Bama QB which given their performance in the NFL over the last 20 yrs minus Hurts- who don't forget left there, should automatically disqualify from #1. Yes, they have remarkable college careers, they also have NFL Olinemen and what has clearly become WR U with WR after WR lighting up the NFL. His size, he's smaller than Baker. No man, no freakin' way do we do this!

Tanenbaum is now touting this Bears moving Fields to get Young.

What is the fascination with him?

[nate505]

Hell no on Derek Carr, just hell no. I would rather take a chance on Young, Stroud or Levis. Hopefully the Colts have learned their lesson on taking other team's QB rejects.

Agreed. That said, in terms of those three options, after staying pat and taking one of the three I would rather sign Carr and pick a blue chip prospect with the #4 pick than trade the #4 (not to mention possibly trading other assets) for Justin Fields. That seems like the worst of all worlds.

[CletusPyle]

Interesting discussion on 1st Take.

Apparently Chicago has interest in Young (why you would just come off a season where your arrow seems to be pointing up behind the greatest running performance ever by a big fast powerful QB who has a cannon but nothing to really work with in the WR department and look to transform behind an undersized guy in the pocket...?). So the discussion was staying at 1 and taking Young, but getting Colts # 4 and some other parts - probably Buckner and something else + additional draft picks for Fields.

It's interesting for discussion. I am convinced that our OL is so damn bad that at least for the next couple years we're going to have to have a QB that can utilize his legs to give us any chance at being competitive (and I still expect us to suck). But, let's say we get Fields, what does he get us to, maybe 8-9, 9-8 and a possible one and done, maybe get lucky and steal a PO game in the next 3 years? Is that worth it, will he be dead on his feet 3 years from now and we'll need a new guy already anyway just when our other younger guys are starting to peak?

I like Fields, I think with a good team around him, he can be at the low end of the Josh Allen register- but I think he needs a lot of good players around him and if he has another terrible OL like he has had in Chicago (which we are), he'll eventually be wasted potential.

I would possibly consider our 2nd round pick and (Don't call me Darius) Leonard for Fields? I might be tempted to trade our #4 pick straight up for Fields, which would still be a good trade for Chicago in my opinion!

[Hoopsdoc]

Talk on radio on Dakich former spot is that it's basically a given, we're giving Chicago whatever they want and the pick is Young. I am just perplexed as to why?

He's a Bama QB which given their performance in the NFL over the last 20 yrs minus Hurts- who don't forget left there, should automatically disqualify from #1. Yes, they have remarkable college careers, they also have NFL Olinemen and what has clearly become WR U with WR after WR lighting up the NFL. His size, he's smaller than Baker. No man, no freakin' way do we do this!

Tanenbaum is now touting this Bears moving Fields to get Young.

What is the fascination with him?

Bears GM wouldn’t rule out taking a quarterback.

It’s hard to tell if that’s just blowing smoke to drive up the value of a pick they know they’re gonna trade or if they’re legitimately soured on Fields.

If they’re smart, they’d draft a quarterback. Fields is awful as a passer, worse than Lamar Jackson.

[Hoopsdoc]

Agreed. That said, in terms of those three options, after staying pat and taking one of the three I would rather sign Carr and pick a blue chip prospect with the #4 pick than trade the #4 (not to mention possibly trading other assets) for Justin Fields. That seems like the worst of all worlds.

I’ll be LIVID if they trade for Fields.

That would be insanely stupid.

[Coltsalr]

Talk on radio on Dakich former spot is that it's basically a given, we're giving Chicago whatever they want and the pick is Young. I am just perplexed as to why?

He's a Bama QB which given their performance in the NFL over the last 20 yrs minus Hurts- who don't forget left there, should automatically disqualify from #1. Yes, they have remarkable college careers, they also have NFL Olinemen and what has clearly become WR U with WR after WR lighting up the NFL. His size, he's smaller than Baker. No man, no freakin' way do we do this!

Tanenbaum is now touting this Bears moving Fields to get Young.

What is the fascination with him?

In fairness, the lack of success of Justin Fields (and lack of success from Ohio State in general) could rule out CJ Stroud by that logic.

And for that matter, have there been any good UF/Kentucky QB’s….ever? That would rule out Richardson/Levis as well.

Bryce Young (whom I’m far from in love with, as an Ole Miss diehard), is not a slam dunk, but for reasons not related to the Tide, I do believe he’s the most opportunistic prospect because he’s shown the most.

[JAFF]

I would possibly consider our 2nd round pick and (Don't call me Darius) Leonard for Fields? I might be tempted to trade our #4 pick straight up for Fields, which would still be a good trade for Chicago in my opinion!

No one is taking on Leonard after this year. Not until he shows he can play.

[ChaosTheory]

Bears GM wouldn’t rule out taking a quarterback.

It’s hard to tell if that’s just blowing smoke to drive up the value of a pick they know they’re gonna trade or if they’re legitimately soured on Fields.

If they’re smart, they’d draft a quarterback. Fields is awful as a passer, worse than Lamar Jackson.

Fields is a name guys throw around as someone Ballard should've drafted. I'm glad he didn't and I'm especially glad he didn't give up a bunch to do it. Trading for Fields now would be spectacularly annoying (of course I don't expect it).

As I've said, I'm late to the party on a lot of college guys, but now that the season is over I'm starting to look at them. So far, almost unanimously, Bryce Young is the #1 prospect. I know guys want Stroud, Levis, Richardson, whoever... and I know the knock on Bryce Young is his size...

But everyone else knows that, too. And they all still have Bryce Young #1. What I'm going back and watching is impressive, but I'm still trying to form my own opinion. But there must be a reason he's everyone's #1. The only knock I ever read on the kid is his size and there are exceptions to every rule.

And I wouldn't be shocked if the Bears went QB if they're getting an upgrade over Fields. League is too skewed towards QB.

[Dam8610]

Fields is a name guys throw around as someone Ballard should've drafted. I'm glad he didn't and I'm especially glad he didn't give up a bunch to do it. Trading for Fields now would be spectacularly annoying (of course I don't expect it).

As I've said, I'm late to the party on a lot of college guys, but now that the season is over I'm starting to look at them. So far, almost unanimously, Bryce Young is the #1 prospect. I know guys want Stroud, Levis, Richardson, whoever... and I know the knock on Bryce Young is his size...

But everyone else knows that, too. And they all still have Bryce Young #1. What I'm going back and watching is impressive, but I'm still trying to form my own opinion. But there must be a reason he's everyone's #1. The only knock I ever read on the kid is his size and there are exceptions to every rule.

And I wouldn't be shocked if the Bears went QB if they're getting an upgrade over Fields. League is too skewed towards QB.

Groupthink is extremely prevalent in draft circles, you'll learn that very quickly. It's honestly a way they protect their own reputations. "Well EVERYONE had it rated that way, obviously no one knew about (insert major flaw here)." You'll see it a lot. Russell Wilson was too small. Brock Purdy was just riding the incredible talent of Breece Hall. Trevor Lawrence is a god king in the making. All wrong things draftniks have said as a result of groupthink. Bryce Young is everyone's #1 because he's everyone else's #1. Don't get me wrong, he's incredibly talented and deserves to be very near the top despite his size. That said, he's not my #1. CJ Stroud is, because he's got all the same tools for the QB position that Bryce Young has that put him in that conversation, but he's 6'3" instead of 5'9" (that's my guess of Young's height based on watching his bowl game). I also like Stroud's tendency to use his athleticism to make plays in the passing game more than Young's tendency to use it to make plays in the running game, which is compounded by Young's diminutive stature.

[IndyNorm]

I tend to agree. What we can trust is that Ballard is going to do everything within his power and his scouting teams power to get this one right. Literally leave no rock unturned on any 3 of the QBs at the top.
This is why I doubt we see any sort of trade until after the combine and pro-days. No doubt, a lot of the overall evaluation of each player will come down to their interviews, wonderlic, private workouts and pro day showings.
There is going to be some differences....Young could have the fastest 40, but Levis may test off the charts in measurables and interview.
After this process and only after will we know how Ballard feels about the pick by his action or inaction. If he trades for #1 then he obviously loves one guy over the others. If he makes a smaller trade up to #3, I would imagine that he likes two of the three guys at the top. If he stands pat, I think he grades them about equally and will take whoever is left (or even trade that pick for a boatload, double down on next year and get someone like AR15 or Hooker, Bennett, etc)
I think a small trade up to 3 makes the most sense and protects us from losing out on all 3 guys if other teams feel inclined to trade into the top 3.
We just have to trust that our scouting team is good at what they do. If they make a trade for the #1 pick it will cost a ton (hoping it wont be all picks and includes a player or two of ours), but it also means that we feel very strongly about the player we take and he jumps out on film, Aced all the aforementioned testing.

No doubt they'll do their due diligence. I just hope they do it better than when they evaluated guys like Wentz, Ryan, Pryor, and Pinter :cool:

[njcoltfan]

Hell no on Derek Carr, just hell no. I would rather take a chance on Young, Stroud or Levis. Hopefully the Colts have learned their lesson on taking other team's QB rejects.
Stay at 4 and take Levis, if he's gone at 4, try to trade down. If that doesn't pan out take one of the edge guys and hopefully Richardson or Hooker will be there at 36.

[Dam8610]

Just remember everyone, there were "no franchise QBs" in the 2017 draft, either.

[CletusPyle]

Just remember everyone, there were "no franchise QBs" in the 2017 draft, either.

Tom Brady was a 6th round QB....nuff said!

[Dam8610]

Tom Brady was a 6th round QB....nuff said!

Let's not talk about Cheaters that deserve to be banned from the league. Brock Purdy was Mr. Irrelevant.

[Dewey 5]

I would take Stroud over any qb in this draft. But that's me & I'm not the one making the pick.

[ChaosTheory]

Groupthink is extremely prevalent in draft circles game

Sure, I get it. Also, when I say "everyone" I should clarify it's guys I tend to trust, not every yahoo with a YouTube channel.

Mainly bringing up the Young consensus in response to the talk about CHI potentially keep the pick and taking him. Which I could see because you can surely upgrade from Fields at QB.

[Dam8610]

Sure, I get it. Also, when I say "everyone" I should clarify it's guys I tend to trust, not every yahoo with a YouTube channel.

Mainly bringing up the Young consensus in response to the talk about CHI potentially keep the pick and taking him. Which I could see because you can surely upgrade from Fields at QB.

The combine is going to be very important for Bryce Young. His height will determine a great deal of his draft stock. That said, he could be 6'2" and the best I would have him is 1b to CJ Stroud's 1a. If he's below 6'0", he's probably clearly 2 to Stroud's 1.

[ChaosTheory]

The combine is going to be very important for Bryce Young. His height will determine a great deal of his draft stock. That said, he could be 6'2" and the best I would have him is 1b to CJ Stroud's 1a. If he's below 6'0", he's probably clearly 2 to Stroud's 1.

You seem to like Stroud to the point of taking him high even in another, let's say, less questionable year of QBs.

So as a Stroud advocate, why do you think (trustworthy) guys would rate him below Young even despite his small size? Which is a significant concern.

[Chromeburn]

I would stay put. Trading up to 1 would likely cost a 2024 1st and that will be a talented draft and I don't want to lose a 1st in that draft.

Nightmare scenario is:

Bears trade out and a QB gone.
Houston takes QB.
Cards decide they want a better thrower or trade out and a QB is taken.

That leaves us with Anderson or Carter. Trade down and take a QB later or take Richardson.

One of the top three should be there. Hopefully, 2 of them will be.

[ChoppedWood]

I would stay put. Trading up to 1 would likely cost a 2024 1st and that will be a talented draft and I don't want to lose a 1st in that draft.

Nightmare scenario is:

Bears trade out and a QB gone.
Houston takes QB.
Cards decide they want a better thrower or trade out and a QB is taken.

That leaves us with Anderson or Carter. Trade down and take a QB later or take Richardson.

One of the top three should be there. Hopefully, 2 of them will be.

In that scenario, stay put and take Carter. Dude is a phenom. we will suck horribly next year, should be able to get # 1 or 2 picks without really having to try very hard. Williams or Maye are better than anyone in this draft by a wide margin.

[ChoppedWood]

In that scenario, stay put and take Carter. Dude is a phenom. we will suck horribly next year, should be able to get # 1 or 2 picks without really having to try very hard. Williams or Maye are better than anyone in this draft by a wide margin.

Plus that would all but guarantee that Ballard will finally be gone, which automatically probably gets us 3 wins the following season.

[Dam8610]

You seem to like Stroud to the point of taking him high even in another, let's say, less questionable year of QBs.

So as a Stroud advocate, why do you think (trustworthy) guys would rate him below Young even despite his small size? Which is a significant concern.

There's some phantom concern about him not being able to improvise or create plays, and "folding under pressure". You can really watch any of his games to debunk these myths, but the Georgia game in particular does it very well.

Also, yes, I am pretty high on Stroud. He grades pretty closely to another former Ohio State QB, Joe Burrow, in my opinion.

[njcoltfan]

Tom Brady was a 6th round QB....nuff said!

Unitas was a 9th round pick....nuff said !!! Fuck that pussy Brady !!

[Oldcolt]

Unitas was a 9th round pick....nuff said !!! Fuck that pussy Brady !!

Who was cut and picked up by the Colts as a free agent. Was in the 1950's though.

[Coltsalr]

I will say that as much as Mac Jones/Tua appears to be scaring people off Bryce Young due to the Alabama factor that the same could absolutely apply with Stroud with Fields/Haskins.

The idea that these guys had elite weapons that could run circles around inferior competition absolutely has merit.

I do believe that Bryce Young has a superior ability to create offense where nothing is there (that I haven’t seen from Stroud and certainly not from Richardson/Levis). Again, please don’t read this as Bryce Young love. I don’t love the guy but he IS the highest on my board and I do want the Colts to trade up what it takes to get him and put him in alongside Harbaugh and see what happens.

[Dam8610]

I will say that as much as Mac Jones/Tua appears to be scaring people off Bryce Young due to the Alabama factor that the same could absolutely apply with Stroud with Fields/Haskins.

The idea that these guys had elite weapons that could run circles around inferior competition absolutely has merit.

I do believe that Bryce Young has a superior ability to create offense where nothing is there (that I haven’t seen from Stroud and certainly not from Richardson/Levis). Again, please don’t read this as Bryce Young love. I don’t love the guy but he IS the highest on my board and I do want the Colts to trade up what it takes to get him and put him in alongside Harbaugh and see what happens.

The school pedigree argument in the current era of football has no merit. Mahomes was from Texas Tech. Allen was from Wyoming. Joe Burrow was from LSU via Ohio State. Herbert was from Oregon. None of these schools has a particularly good history of developing QBs and sending them to the NFL.

As far as his ability to create, that (and the size) is where my Russell Wilson comp for him comes from. Young creates in a similar fashion to Russell Wilson. When his offense gets off schedule, he will start using his athleticism to run around and gain yardage on the ground, occasionally also using it to escape pressure and make insane throws few other QBs could make.

I disagree with your opinion on Stroud and his ability to create. He absolutely has incredible athleticism, but the way he tends to use it to create is similar to Aaron Rodgers. He'll escape pressure and roll out, but whether he rolls left or right, he almost constantly has his eyes downfield looking to make plays in the passing game rather than taking off running with the ball. This often results in him getting unexpected completions, first downs, and touchdowns that are entirely the result of him escaping pressure and buying time. Watch the first TD in the Georgia game for a perfect example of this. I don't understand where this argument that Stroud can't improvise or create comes from, but it's completely inaccurate.

As a side note, I don't know where this Parris Johnson is a top 15 pick talk comes from? He must be like 19 years old or something, because on film, he grades out as a low Day 2 to high Day 3 pick. He was terrible at protecting Stroud's blindside.

[Dewey 5]

I will say that as much as Mac Jones/Tua appears to be scaring people off Bryce Young due to the Alabama factor that the same could absolutely apply with Stroud with Fields/Haskins.

The idea that these guys had elite weapons that could run circles around inferior competition absolutely has merit.

I do believe that Bryce Young has a superior ability to create offense where nothing is there (that I haven’t seen from Stroud and certainly not from Richardson/Levis). Again, please don’t read this as Bryce Young love. I don’t love the guy but he IS the highest on my board and I do want the Colts to trade up what it takes to get him and put him in alongside Harbaugh and see what happens.

People need to stop with the Harbaugh talk. He’s not coming to Indy. Let it go & move on.

[Brylok]

People need to stop with the Harbaugh talk. He’s not coming to Indy. Let it go & move on.

Yep, and Bryce Young, too. You want another Tua? Draft the 5'10" less than 200 pounds QB. Johnny Manziel was bigger than that, and he got squished.

[Dam8610]

Yep, and Bryce Young, too. You want another Tua? Draft the 5'10" less than 200 pounds QB. Johnny Manziel was bigger than that, and he got squished.

Johnny Manziel's problem wasn't his size, it was that he put zero effort into becoming a starting caliber NFL QB.

[apballin]

There's some phantom concern about him not being able to improvise or create plays, and "folding under pressure". You can really watch any of his games to debunk these myths, but the Georgia game in particular does it very well.

Also, yes, I am pretty high on Stroud. He grades pretty closely to another former Ohio State QB, Joe Burrow, in my opinion.

Burrow?? Cmon man if he was anywhere near Burrow he’d be a slam dunk for the #1 pick and it wouldn’t even be close. He’s no Burrow, Burrow shattered records and didn’t lose. Burrow is the son of a football coach. The comparison stops at Ohio State

[Kray007]

hell no to trading up.


just sit tight and take whatever qb is there. unless the gm doesn't like him.

The problem is that Ballard’s job and the team’s future is riding on getting the pick right. The way I see it is that, if you think one of them is the guy, you make whatever move is necessary to move up and guarantee you get him.

[Dam8610]

Burrow?? Cmon man if he was anywhere near Burrow he’d be a slam dunk for the #1 pick and it wouldn’t even be close. He’s no Burrow, Burrow shattered records and didn’t lose. Burrow is the son of a football coach. The comparison stops at Ohio State

Burrow had 2 Marvin Harrison Jr.s or better at his disposal (JaMarr Chase and Justin Jefferson), and never faced a defense that allowed an average of 12.8 PPG.

Stroud should be a slam dunk for the #1 pick, I don't know why he isn't.

[YDFL Commish]

All I know is that Burrow was the most accurate college passer that I have ever seen.

[Lov2fish]

None of the top 4 QB's in this draft are worth trading future draft picks to move up 3 spots for any of the QB's that scream bust more than franchise QB.

[CletusPyle]

Unitas was a 9th round pick....nuff said !!! Fuck that pussy Brady !!

That pussy worked out pretty well for the Cheats, that was my only point!

[Coltsalr]

Johnny Manziel's problem wasn't his size, it was that he put zero effort into becoming a starting caliber NFL QB.

He was also a coke head, which likely would have derailed things even if he was Luck’s size.

[Dam8610]

None of the top 4 QB's in this draft are worth trading future draft picks to move up 3 spots for any of the QB's that scream bust more than franchise QB.

We're not talking about Trevor Lawrence here. These are not "ZOMG SIZE AND ATHLETICISM!" guys (well, Levis and Richardson are). Stroud and Young both are very advanced at reading defenses, exploiting coverages, making good decisions, moving coverage with their eyes, and throwing to the spot the receiver needs to be in with the right amount of touch on the throw. CJ Stroud is definitely worth trading up for, Bryce Young might be worth it. Levis and Richardson, 100% agree, not worth trading up for.

[Dam8610]

All I know is that Burrow was the most accurate college passer that I have ever seen.

If Stroud is not as accurate, he's very close to it. I even saw a throw in the Georgia game where the announcer said "that ball was underthrown and the receiver had to come back for it". They then show the replay, Stroud threw the ball to an area of the field where no Georgia defender was or conceivably could get to, and only his receiver had a shot at the ball, and the receiver was able to catch it in stride on his route.

[Lov2fish]

We're not talking about Trevor Lawrence here. These are not "ZOMG SIZE AND ATHLETICISM!" guys (well, Levis and Richardson are). Stroud and Young both are very advanced at reading defenses, exploiting coverages, making good decisions, moving coverage with their eyes, and throwing to the spot the receiver needs to be in with the right amount of touch on the throw. CJ Stroud is definitely worth trading up for, Bryce Young might be worth it. Levis and Richardson, 100% agree, not worth trading up for.


Dude, Stroud is not a can't miss generational talent. He is not worth trading any draft capitol from next year to leap frog anyone to get him. He's just not. All I will say is, I am glad you're not the GM or scout for the Colts. We would be light years away from competing for anything.

[apballin]

If Stroud is not as accurate, he's very close to it. I even saw a throw in the Georgia game where the announcer said "that ball was underthrown and the receiver had to come back for it". They then show the replay, Stroud threw the ball to an area of the field where no Georgia defender was or conceivably could get to, and only his receiver had a shot at the ball, and the receiver was able to catch it in stride on his route.

He also got Harrison knocked out of the game with a pass that shouldn’t have been thrown

[Dam8610]

He also got Harrison knocked out of the game with a pass that shouldn’t have been thrown

You'd rather he take the sack? It was supposed to be an uncatchable ball, and Georgia's safety is lucky he didn't get flagged for targeting, he really should have been.

[Dewey 5]

He also got Harrison knocked out of the game with a pass that shouldn’t have been thrown

That was actually a damn good pass.

[Dam8610]

Dude, Stroud is not a can't miss generational talent. He is not worth trading any draft capitol from next year to leap frog anyone to get him. He's just not. All I will say is, I am glad you're not the GM or scout for the Colts. We would be light years away from competing for anything.

Please provide any evidence of your claim.

[JAFF]

Please provide any evidence of your claim.

Evidence, on the internet? WTF. :eek:

[YDFL Commish]

There is not a single QB that is worth moving up from the 4th pick for.

The Cardinals and Bears are not taking a QB, so we've got our choice, after the Texans.

Also show me a team with the draft capital and the issue that they are not heavily invested in a franchise QB. I only see possibly Seattle if they sour on Geno Smith.

[ChaosTheory]

There is not a single QB that is worth moving up from the 4th pick for.

The Cardinals and Bears are not taking a QB, so we've got our choice, after the Texans.

Also show me a team with the draft capital and the issue that they are not heavily invested in a franchise QB. I only see possibly Seattle if they sour on Geno Smith.

Fortunate and unfortunate. Fortunate in that there should only be one QB taken ahead us. Unfortunate in that the class we're drafting a QB from doesn't have a QB worth really going after (unless Dam is right).

[Dam8610]

Evidence, on the internet? WTF. :eek:

Example of evidence in favor of my claim that Stroud is worth trading up for. (https://youtu.be/kYGrwTMfxZY)

[JAFF]

There is not a single QB that is worth moving up from the 4th pick for.

The Cardinals and Bears are not taking a QB, so we've got our choice, after the Texans.

Also show me a team with the draft capital and the issue that they are not heavily invested in a franchise QB. I only see possibly Seattle if they sour on Geno Smith.

Making waaaayyyyyy too much sense. :eek:

[Lov2fish]

Example of evidence in favor of my claim that Stroud is worth trading up for. (https://youtu.be/kYGrwTMfxZY)

You are cherry picking footage. Hell I can make Curtis Painter look good by cherry picking highlights from selective plays. You believe what you want to believe, its your illusion. I'll believe what my eyes tell me.

[Dam8610]

You are cherry picking footage. Hell I can make Curtis Painter look good by cherry picking highlights from selective plays. You believe what you want to believe, its your illusion. I'll believe what my eyes tell me.

The video literally says "every throw" and I didn't make it. How is that cherry picking? But please, by all means, cherry pick if you must, show me even one bad CJ Stroud game.

[YDFL Commish]

The video literally says "every throw" and I didn't make it. How is that cherry picking? But please, by all means, cherry pick if you must, show me even one bad CJ Stroud game.

Northwestern.

[Puck]

There is not a single QB that is worth moving up from the 4th pick for.

The Cardinals and Bears are not taking a QB, so we've got our choice, after the Texans.

Also show me a team with the draft capital and the issue that they are not heavily invested in a franchise QB. I only see possibly Seattle if they sour on Geno Smith.

Yep. Although there may be one that turns out pretty good. But not worth trading up for.

Sit at 4 and see what happens. Can trade back and collect draft picks and roll with Sam and get the #1 for 2024 and get Williams

Although I am intrigued by AR15. He could possibly be had in the 2nd. and also Hooker in the 3rd

[rcubed]

Yep. Although there may be one that turns out pretty good. But not worth trading up for.

Sit at 4 and see what happens. Can trade back and collect draft picks and roll with Sam and get the #1 for 2024 and get Williams

Although I am intrigued by AR15. He could possibly be had in the 2nd. and also Hooker in the 3rd
i approve this plan.

[Coltsalr]

There’s rumblings now that Stroud could possibly return to school.

[Dam8610]

Yep. Although there may be one that turns out pretty good. But not worth trading up for.

Sit at 4 and see what happens. Can trade back and collect draft picks and roll with Sam and get the #1 for 2024 and get Williams

Although I am intrigued by AR15. He could possibly be had in the 2nd. and also Hooker in the 3rd

By the 2024 draft everyone will hate Caleb Williams and say he folds under pressure or can't improvise or something. You're almost never going to get the perfect prospect according to everyone, and sometimes when you do *cough*TrevorLawrence*cough*, it's not necessarily a good thing. Burrow is the only top QB in the NFL today that was universally thought to be the best player in his draft.

There’s rumblings now that Stroud could possibly return to school.

That would be the worst possible thing for the Colts.

[Dam8610]

Northwestern.

I saw 4 bad throws and at least 5 drops of perfectly thrown balls. Most of Ohio State's struggles on offense in that game boiled down to them being unable to convert 3rd and short with their running game. If that's the worst of CJ Stroud it reinforces my opinion that the Colts should trade up for him.

[Lov2fish]

I saw 4 bad throws and at least 5 drops of perfectly thrown balls. Most of Ohio State's struggles on offense in that game boiled down to them being unable to convert 3rd and short with their running game. If that's the worst of CJ Stroud it reinforces my opinion that the Colts should trade up for him.

Dude, don't hug his balls so hard, he can't breath.

[Lov2fish]

Reports are starting to come out that Stroud is staying another year at Ohio State. So now what, suck again next year for the wonder kid?

[YDFL Commish]

I saw 4 bad throws and at least 5 drops of perfectly thrown balls. Most of Ohio State's struggles on offense in that game boiled down to them being unable to convert 3rd and short with their running game. If that's the worst of CJ Stroud it reinforces my opinion that the Colts should trade up for him.

He threw for 76 fuk'n yards, he was 10 of 26 against the 83rd ranked defense in the country. You gotta be kidding me that we should trade up for this dude.

I'm going to bet you a snickers bar that Will Levis will be the best QB in this draft.

[Dam8610]

Reports are starting to come out that Stroud is staying another year at Ohio State. So now what, suck again next year for the wonder kid?

The options at that point are trade up to 1 for Young or go back to the QB fixer upper market.

He threw for 76 fuk'n yards, he was 10 of 26 against the 83rd ranked defense in the country. You gotta be kidding me that we should trade up for this dude.

I'm going to bet you a snickers bar that Will Levis will be the best QB in this draft.

He also ran for another 70ish yards and had about 120ish yards worth of throws dropped. I didn't say he looked great in that game, but if that's the floor, it's a good floor.

[Lov2fish]

The options at that point are trade up to 1 for Young or go back to the QB fixer upper market.



He also ran for another 70ish yards and had about 120ish yards worth of throws dropped. I didn't say he looked great in that game, but if that's the floor, it's a good floor.

We agree Young has talent, no denying it. His size scares the living shit out of me. I am all for trading back, or taking a stud pass rusher. Lets face it, a QB alone is not fixing this fucking train wreck. Go O-line in 2nd. round.

[Brylok]

Irsay, Ballard, Saturday, and Sam will get us the #1 pick next season. I'm kidding/not kidding.

[Coltsalr]

Will Levis does nothing for me. I know I’m not overly impressed by Stroud, but Levis does nothing at all for me.

I can see the talent in Anthony Richardson but I don’t have the appetite for a project player.

I’d just as soon nab Will Anderson and suck ass (again) and get Caleb Williams in 2024.

[Dam8610]

Will Levis does nothing for me. I know I’m not overly impressed by Stroud, but Levis does nothing at all for me.

I can see the talent in Anthony Richardson but I don’t have the appetite for a project player.

I’d just as soon nab Will Anderson and suck ass (again) and get Caleb Williams in 2024.

You know everyone will hate Williams next year the way they hate Stroud now, right? He's also a Lincoln Riley QB, which is a huge risk factor.

[ChoppedWood]

You know everyone will hate Williams next year the way they hate Stroud now, right? He's also a Lincoln Riley QB, which is a huge risk factor.

He is also losing WR's by the buckets, they may not be the offensive light show they were this year which would knock his stock.

[apballin]

According to David Kaplan, Colts are offering Pittman, another player and next years first and are in love with Levis

[ChoppedWood]

According to David Kaplan, Colts are offering Pittman, another player and next years first and are in love with Levis

Yuck

Going to try to go the highly intelligent, big stand in the pocket throw darts route again. We have the worst OL in the NFL. Sacked into submission is my expectation.

Strikes me as precisely the type of guy Ballard would covet because of his "traits" without any consideration for the team as a whole. Pittman is a solid # 2, so yeah, let's reduce the weaponry for a rookie QB- Genius! Hey, let's let Campbell walk while we're at it.

[Coltsalr]

You know everyone will hate Williams next year the way they hate Stroud now, right? He's also a Lincoln Riley QB, which is a huge risk factor.

I don’t know about that. There wasn’t this much hype in 2022 that “Stroud is going to be hands down the guy in 2023!” Caleb Williams has a much higher perch to fall from.

[omahacolt]

absolutely don't want to trade up

[ChaosTheory]

According to David Kaplan, Colts are offering Pittman, another player and next years first and are in love with Levis

Interesting. That's a lot to give up for this class. But if you want a guy, especially if Stroud decides to return to OSU, it's a bad ratios of QBs : QB-needy teams that you have to stay ahead of.

[CletusPyle]

Will Levis does nothing for me. I know I’m not overly impressed by Stroud, but Levis does nothing at all for me.

I can see the talent in Anthony Richardson but I don’t have the appetite for a project player.

I’d just as soon nab Will Anderson and suck ass (again) and get Caleb Williams in 2024.

I think Levis is going to be very good, just my opinion based on what I have seen and a consensus of expert opinions that I have read and heard. But it is always a crap shoot, but unlikely that all of the top 5 or 6 prospects will be a bust, the question is which one is going to be exceptional?

[Lov2fish]

I think Levis is going to be very good, just my opinion based on what I have seen and a consensus of expert opinions that I have read and heard. But it is always a crap shoot, but unlikely that all of the top 5 or 6 prospects will be a bust, the question is which one is going to be exceptional?

I still stand behind what I have said. I would not trade draft stock for any of them. However, Levis is the most NFL ready QB in this draft. Young is way to fucking small and like Stroud is surrounded by blue chip players who make their lives easier on the field. Levis playing at KY has played with some so-so players, JUCO and DII transfers and made them better. He stronger, mentally and physically than the other 2.

[rcubed]

No trading up. If its levis at 4, ok, take your shot with a rookie QB. I wont fault ballard for that if he doesnt pan out. But it doesn’t seem any of the top QBs are worth giving up future capital

[Hoopsdoc]

Yep. Although there may be one that turns out pretty good. But not worth trading up for.

Sit at 4 and see what happens. Can trade back and collect draft picks and roll with Sam and get the #1 for 2024 and get Williams

Although I am intrigued by AR15. He could possibly be had in the 2nd. and also Hooker in the 3rd

No. They have to take a quarterback.

Rolling with Sam isn’t a viable option.

We aren’t the Cowboys. Colts fans won’t stick around for another season of suck, unless there’s a young highly drafted quarterback playing.

[YDFL Commish]

I think Levis is going to be very good, just my opinion based on what I have seen and a consensus of expert opinions that I have read and heard. But it is always a crap shoot, but unlikely that all of the top 5 or 6 prospects will be a bust, the question is which one is going to be exceptional?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RKxMSijJ-Do

[Dam8610]

According to David Kaplan, Colts are offering Pittman, another player and next years first and are in love with Levis

It's that last part that's concerning.

[IndyNorm]

Yuck

Going to try to go the highly intelligent, big stand in the pocket throw darts route again. We have the worst OL in the NFL. Sacked into submission is my expectation.

Strikes me as precisely the type of guy Ballard would covet because of his "traits" without any consideration for the team as a whole. Pittman is a solid # 2, so yeah, let's reduce the weaponry for a rookie QB- Genius! Hey, let's let Campbell walk while we're at it.

Agreed. Let's go from a bad WR room to a terrible WR room. That would be great for a rookie QB :cool:

[Puck]

No. They have to take a quarterback.

Rolling with Sam isn’t a viable option.

We aren’t the Cowboys. Colts fans won’t stick around for another season of suck, unless there’s a young highly drafted quarterback playing.

None worth taking at 4 IMO. ANd damn sure not wanting to trade up to get one. Take Anderson and then Richardson in the 2nd or Hookerr in the 3rd.

Having to take a QB is not true at all. There are FA QB's out there also. You can't waste a #4 pick on a less than elite QB.

If Ballard is that confident in one of these guys. It will either make or break him.

I wouldn't do it

[JAFF]

It's that last part that's concerning.

Trade away your best receiver for a rookie qb. Who is he going to throw to?

[ChoppedWood]

Trade away your best receiver for a rookie qb. Who is he going to throw to?

Let me be Ballard for a minute:

Matt Pryor is going to be our WR1 in 2023

This is of course said in a raspy somewhat southern drawl with a nice concentration of sarcasm intended to serve notice to his haters that he had a plan all along- you / we, we were just too stupid to not see his genius until it all unfolded.

[apballin]

Let me be Ballard for a minute:

Matt Pryor is going to be our WR1 in 2023

This is of course said in a raspy somewhat southern drawl with a nice concentration of sarcasm intended to serve notice to his haters that he had a plan all along- you / we, we were just too stupid to not see his genius until it all unfolded.

Let’s raise our glasses to kicking everyone’s asses

[omahacolt]

None worth taking at 4 IMO. ANd damn sure not wanting to trade up to get one. Take Anderson and then Richardson in the 2nd or Hookerr in the 3rd.

Having to take a QB is not true at all. There are FA QB's out there also. You can't waste a #4 pick on a less than elite QB.

If Ballard is that confident in one of these guys. It will either make or break him.

I wouldn't do it
Richardson will not be there in the 2nd. i am thinking i like the idea of just staying put and taking richardson at 4. sure he could bust but he could also be amazing. there is a lot to work with there and at the very least it should be fun

[ChoppedWood]

Richardson will not be there in the 2nd. i am thinking i like the idea of just staying put and taking richardson at 4. sure he could bust but he could also be amazing. there is a lot to work with there and at the very least.

That's where I am as well. Try like hell to re-create Josh Allen. Hell if he can become a wish Randall Cunningham- let's just go with it. DO NOT GIVE UP ANY FUCKING OFFENSIVE SKILL POSITIONS TO MOVE UP FOR ANY OF THESE DUDES! Does no fucking good to get some project QB (in some respects all of the top 4 are) and dilute their weaponry.

[Dam8610]

Trade away your best receiver for a rookie qb. Who is he going to throw to?

If they get the wrong QB, what does it matter? Moving to 1 is necessary if Stroud declares, and even more necessary if he doesn't, to ensure the Colts get the best QB.

As for your question, there are other weapons on this offense, there's the free agent market, and there's the other draft picks the Colts have as well. If all that's given up to move from 4 to 1 is Pittman and next year's 1, that's a coup.

[Brylok]

Pittman wants to leave. I read that days ago, but I don't recall where.

[ukcolt]

If Pittman wants to leave, that is fine, someone can give us a high round pick, he is a proven commodity. But i really don't want to trade up in this draft for any of these QB's. This year's class in my opinion, could be as bad as last years.

[Discflinger]

Don’t blame him. Probably would like to run more than just slants.

[Lov2fish]

Before I traded future draft capitol I would take a stud pass rusher, grab Stetson Bennet in the 2nd. round. Yea he is 25, but that is still 12-13 years of good football for todays QB's as they are protected like national treasures. He has won two national titles and can make every throw. He is just as likely to be a good QB as any of the top 4 in the draft. When everything has bust potential written all over it, I would rather it be a 2nd. round bust. He will be there with our first pick in the 2nd.

[apballin]

Pittman wants to leave. I read that days ago, but I don't recall where.

He’s a Cali boy wouldn’t surprise me if he wanted to go back out west, and if we’re not gonna pay him might as well get something for him

[CletusPyle]

Before I traded future draft capitol I would take a stud pass rusher, grab Stetson Bennet in the 2nd. round. Yea he is 25, but that is still 12-13 years of good football for todays QB's as they are protected like national treasures. He has won two national titles and can make every throw. He is just as likely to be a good QB as any of the top 4 in the draft. When everything has bust potential written all over it, I would rather it be a 2nd. round bust. He will be there with our first pick in the 2nd.

You may even be able to get him in the 3rd....the guy is a winner and may end up being a lot better than the "experts" say!

[JAFF]

You may even be able to get him in the 3rd....the guy is a winner and may end up being a lot better than the "experts" say!

Russell Wilson, as an example

[Dam8610]

Russell Wilson, as an example

Russell Wilson is NOT in any way, shape, or form a good comparison to Stetson Bennett, primarily because Bennett will be 26 in his rookie year. The stigma on being 6'0"+ for QBs still existed in 2012 which is why Wilson didn't get drafted until Round 3. Jake Fromm is a much better comparison for Stetson Bennett.

[omahacolt]

Pittman wants to leave. I read that days ago, but I don't recall where.

i have not seen that anywhere


that would surprise me

[omahacolt]

Before I traded future draft capitol I would take a stud pass rusher, grab Stetson Bennet in the 2nd. round. Yea he is 25, but that is still 12-13 years of good football for todays QB's as they are protected like national treasures. He has won two national titles and can make every throw. He is just as likely to be a good QB as any of the top 4 in the draft. When everything has bust potential written all over it, I would rather it be a 2nd. round bust. He will be there with our first pick in the 2nd.

gross


no way do i want that

[omahacolt]

You may even be able to get him in the 3rd....the guy is a winner and may end up being a lot better than the "experts" say!

qb winz



yay

[JAFF]

Russell Wilson is NOT in any way, shape, or form a good comparison to Stetson Bennett, primarily because Bennett will be 26 in his rookie year. The stigma on being 6'0"+ for QBs still existed in 2012 which is why Wilson didn't get drafted until Round 3. Jake Fromm is a much better comparison for Stetson Bennett.

He is short, has great feet, has an accurate arm. He does well with roll out pass plays to get vision. Older, smarter than most rookies. Nah,nothing like Wilson. BTW Wilson was 23 when drafted.

[YDFL Commish]

Freaks, I just do not want a short QB. No way now how. Have you seen the deep drops that Russell Wilson has to take to see the field? It worked with Brees because NO always invested heavily in G C G so that he could see the field without deep drops all the time.

If Bennett and Young even somehow grow to 6' I will be extremely surprised.

I do not want to design an offense around the limitations of our QB.

[JAFF]

Freaks, I just do not want a short QB. No way now how. Have you seen the deep drops that Russell Wilson has to take to see the field? It worked with Brees because NO always invested heavily in G C G so that he could see the field without deep drops all the time.

If Bennett and Young even somehow grow to 6' I will be extremely surprised.

I do not want to design an offense around the limitations of our QB.

Brees had 172 wins in his career.

Wilson has 107

If ybou dont want a guy who wins games wtf do you want?

[Brylok]

i have not seen that anywhere


that would surprise me

It was something from one of his entourage if I remember. Reddit, linked twitter or something else. I wouldn't blame him. He's a good 2 with potential we can't reach without a QB and coaching

[Dam8610]

He is short, has great feet, has an accurate arm. He does well with roll out pass plays to get vision. Older, smarter than most rookies. Nah,nothing like Wilson. BTW Wilson was 23 when drafted.

Those three years are a massive difference when talking about a rookie QB.

[JAFF]

Those three years are a massive difference when talking about a rookie QB.

More experience, not a bad thing.

[CletusPyle]

More experience, not a bad thing.

Fran Tarkington and Joe Thiesmann were both 6 foot (allegedly)....Somebody will take him for sure, and I think he may do very well! I don't think we will, but if we decide to draft for another position with our #1, I say pick him!

[Dam8610]

More experience, not a bad thing.

Russell Wilson had more starting experience coming out of college.

[apballin]

Ballard doesn’t draft short guys.

Polian was able to draft whoever he wanted because he had Peyton Manning

[IndyNorm]

Let me be Ballard for a minute:

Matt Pryor is going to be our WR1 in 2023

This is of course said in a raspy somewhat southern drawl with a nice concentration of sarcasm intended to serve notice to his haters that he had a plan all along- you / we, we were just too stupid to not see his genius until it all unfolded.

My turn to play Ballard.

Don't be fucking ridiculous. Pryor will remain as our backup swing linemen and compete with Raimann for the starting LT position. He's just so versatile and has such great traits. Sure he didn't successfully block a single defender this entire season, but we're positive he'll get back to his old form where he played ok in 1 start at LT in '21.

As for the WR room, we really like what we have. Sure none of them outside of MPJ have produced much at this level, but they all have such great traits! If we end up trading MPJ then no doubt Pierce will easily transition to our WR1 and we're expecting him to triple his production.

Now that he's healthy Paris Campbell showed how good of a WR he can be. We'll definitely be re-signing and fully relying on him next year, b/c despite the fact that he got hurt every single time he stepped on the field his first 3 years in the league he proved last year that he's not injury prone and will never, ever get hurt again.

As for the rest of the group. I'm just going to assume that someone else is going to make the big leap from being a STer or healthy scratch to a full time WR3 without any problem. This has happened so many times for us in the past, how could it not happen again?

Also, let's not forget about the draft. I fully plan on using at least 1 if not 2 late round draft picks on a WR or 2 who didn't really produce much in college but have outstanding traits. I know this has yet to produce a WR who has really produced much on the field, but trust me it'll work this year.

Oh and BTW: since I'm having to spend so much time once again on the WR room the OL is still going to suck. Hope you media types are happy.

[IndyNorm]

Ballard doesn’t draft short guys.

Polian was able to draft whoever he wanted because he had Peyton Manning

I think it was more that Polian (and Tobin) knew that there was more to being a good football player than height, arm span, and 40 times. And good thing they did b/c there were a lot of great players they drafted or signed as FAs/UDFAs that Ballard probably wouldn't have even considered such as:

Marvin Harrison - Too short
Jeff Saturday - Arms too short
Reggie Wayne - Probably too short, too slow of a 40 time
Dwight Freeney - Too short
Robert Mathis - Too short
Bob Sanders - Too short
Gary Brackett - Too short

[Chromeburn]

I think the pick is Levis with the backup being Richardson. They might not be as ready now but in two years they could be as advanced as young with more survivable size. I would be afraid to draft Young after watching Tua this year. You get hit in this league and you get hurt, it’s inevitable. Looks like Stroud is staying unless he announces at the 11th hour.

[ChoppedWood]

My turn to play Ballard.

Don't be fucking ridiculous. Pryor will remain as our backup swing linemen and compete with Raimann for the starting LT position. He's just so versatile and has such great traits. Sure he didn't successfully block a single defender this entire season, but we're positive he'll get back to his old form where he played ok in 1 start at LT in '21.

As for the WR room, we really like what we have. Sure none of them outside of MPJ have produced much at this level, but they all have such great traits! If we end up trading MPJ then no doubt Pierce will easily transition to our WR1 and we're expecting him to triple his production.

Now that he's healthy Paris Campbell showed how good of a WR he can be. We'll definitely be re-signing and fully relying on him next year, b/c despite the fact that he got hurt every single time he stepped on the field his first 3 years in the league he proved last year that he's not injury prone and will never, ever get hurt again.

As for the rest of the group. I'm just going to assume that someone else is going to make the big leap from being a STer or healthy scratch to a full time WR3 without any problem. This has happened so many times for us in the past, how could it not happen again?

Also, let's not forget about the draft. I fully plan on using at least 1 if not 2 late round draft picks on a WR or 2 who didn't really produce much in college but have outstanding traits. I know this has yet to produce a WR who has really produced much on the field, but trust me it'll work this year.

Oh and BTW: since I'm having to spend so much time once again on the WR room the OL is still going to suck. Hope you media types are happy.

Exactly!

[ChoppedWood]

I think it was more that Polian (and Tobin) knew that there was more to being a good football player than height, arm span, and 40 times. And good thing they did b/c there were a lot of great players they drafted or signed as FAs/UDFAs that Ballard probably wouldn't have even considered such as:

Marvin Harrison - Too short
Jeff Saturday - Arms too short
Reggie Wayne - Probably too short, too slow of a 40 time
Dwight Freeney - Too short
Robert Mathis - Too short
Bob Sanders - Too short
Gary Brackett - Too short

And yet, a sizable portion of this board, for some reason, despite 6 years of fucking evidence, believes this guy is good and needs to be here for us to achieve success.

He sucks!

[Colts And Orioles]

Fran Tarkenton and Joe Theismann were both 6 foot (allegedly) ...... somebody will take him for sure, and I think he may do very well !!! I don't think that we will, but if we decide to draft for another position with our #1, I say that we ought to pick him !!!





o


Tarkenton and Theismann are both unrestricted free agents ...... I wouldn't mind seeing either one of them play QB for the Colts next season.

o

[IndyNorm]

And yet, a sizable portion of this board, for some reason, despite 6 years of fucking evidence, believes this guy is good and needs to be here for us to achieve success.

He sucks!

Not only do they think he's good, they link he's one of the top GMs in the league.

To be fair I don't think he outright sucks. He does mostly draft well, but his roster building philosophy sucks. He relies way too much on current players or draft picks seamlessly stepping in and producing well (even at super critical positions), and what's worse is that he never hedges these decisions. Also, he prioritizes physical traits over production on the field too much.

[Coltsalr]

https://twitter.com/cj7stroud/status/1615019233620156416?s=46&t=393YzmgtiqXlQRMiCWGdKg

Dammy gets his wish and Stroud heads to the Draft.

[CletusPyle]

o


Tarkenton and Theismann are both unrestricted free agents ...... I wouldn't mind seeing either one of them play QB for the Colts next season.

o

But can they get an off campus pass from their nursing homes on Sundays?

[IndyNorm]

https://twitter.com/cj7stroud/status/1615019233620156416?s=46&t=393YzmgtiqXlQRMiCWGdKg

Dammy gets his wish and Stroud heads to the Draft.

Good. If nothing else that improves the chances of us getting a QB we like at 4 and also probably lowers the price on trading up to get one if needed.

[IndyNorm]

Hey Dam. I'm curious. What would you rather have the Colts do: trade up for Stroud or go back in time to 2021 and trade up for Mac Jones?

[ChaosTheory]

https://twitter.com/cj7stroud/status/1615019233620156416?s=46&t=393YzmgtiqXlQRMiCWGdKg

Dammy gets his wish and Stroud heads to the Draft.

Honestly didn't expect it. I was reading rumors of $12m NIL.

This is good for the Colts. Whether they end up drafting him or not... more QB choices is better. I suppose it helps in the bidding war department as well when teams start trying to move places.

[Lov2fish]

Hey Dam. I'm curious. What would you rather have the Colts do: trade up for Stroud or go back in time to 2021 and trade up for Mac Jones?

Go back through this board and pick up everyone he was sure was "The Man" and he would hit about 20% of his picks

[Dam8610]

Hey Dam. I'm curious. What would you rather have the Colts do: trade up for Stroud or go back in time to 2021 and trade up for Mac Jones?

That's a tough one. I'd grade Stroud better than Jones, but I feel like it would have been much cheaper to go up for Jones, like no future 1s involved in getting to 14 that year. Obviously Belicheat has done no favors for Jones's development, but I feel like the Colts offense would've been a better fit for him. I'd probably ultimately go with Stroud because he's the better talent of the two. He will cost more but in the long run it won't be noticeable.

Go back through this board and pick up everyone he was sure was "The Man" and he would hit about 20% of his picks

I don't do Dane Brugler style rankings, and I don't post my opinions on every available player, so this would be nearly impossible to do. I would place your 20% estimate as low, however. I'm actually interested in tracking this if anyone has a way to do it. Maybe an instant redraft of who I would've drafted instead? Still hard to do, because we can never know what trades would be available, so it would be hard to argue taking Tremaine Edmunds and Derwin James instead of Quenton Nelson, for example, because we don't KNOW the Bills would have traded 12 and 22 for 6 that year.

[JAFF]

https://twitter.com/cj7stroud/status/1615019233620156416?s=46&t=393YzmgtiqXlQRMiCWGdKg

Dammy gets his wish and Stroud heads to the Draft.

The next OSU Qb failure.

[IndyNorm]

That's a tough one. I'd grade Stroud better than Jones, but I feel like it would have been much cheaper to go up for Jones, like no future 1s involved in getting to 14 that year. Obviously Belicheat has done no favors for Jones's development, but I feel like the Colts offense would've been a better fit for him. I'd probably ultimately go with Stroud because he's the better talent of the two. He will cost more but in the long run it won't be noticeable.


Thanks and nice response. I'm on the fence on Stroud, but FWIW I think we'd be in a hell of a lot better shape if we had traded up for Jones instead of traded for Wentz.

[CletusPyle]

I still think Levis is the best pro prospect!

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/video/ryan-wilson-joins-amanda-guerra-to-discuss-the-colts-trading-up-to-select-will-levis-no-1-overall-in-ryans-mock/

[Lov2fish]

I still think Levis is the best pro prospect!

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/video/ryan-wilson-joins-amanda-guerra-to-discuss-the-colts-trading-up-to-select-will-levis-no-1-overall-in-ryans-mock/

A little more Levis.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RKxMSijJ-Do

[Dam8610]

Thanks and nice response. I'm on the fence on Stroud, but FWIW I think we'd be in a hell of a lot later shape if we had traded up for Jones instead of traded for Wentz.

I think you meant better instead of later, and I would agree with that assessment. I also think Jones's best abilities align well with the skillsets of the Colts receiving corps. Pittman and Pierce are both really good at catching a well thrown fade

[IndyNorm]

I think you meant better instead of later, and I would agree with that assessment. I also think Jones's best abilities align well with the skillsets of the Colts receiving corps. Pittman and Pierce are both really good at catching a well thrown fade

I did lol, and I was on my laptop so I can't even blame it on auto-correct :eek:

[CletusPyle]

A little more Levis.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RKxMSijJ-Do

I think this is a fair assessment, the turnovers worry me a little, but he has the tools, I would be willing to bet he can overcome it! I disagree he will be a #10 pick, in fact if the Colts don't trade up I think Houston will take him!

[Lov2fish]

I think this is a fair assessment, the turnovers worry me a little, but he has the tools, I would be willing to bet he can overcome it! I disagree he will be a #10 pick, in fact if the Colts don't trade up I think Houston will take him!

Of the top 4 QB's in this draft he is my pick. His mechanics can be fixed faster than a small fragile QB who will get broken, or one who has issues in the 8" between the ears. Don't need a 2-3 year project. I still think Richardson is the most gifted athlete of any of them, but man he just screams bust. If we draft him of course I hope I am wrong, if someone else does, well, you know. lol

[ChoppedWood]

Increasing noise, including Lamar's tweet this morning, that he is out of Baltimore.

Worth the trade?

[CletusPyle]

Increasing noise, including Lamar's tweet this morning, that he is out of Baltimore.

Worth the trade?

Lamar is a great player, but I can't see him as a Colt, not sure how successful he would be here. I wonder if Brady will go to Vegas to play for McDumbass? Maybe that is why they are wanting to move Derek Carr?

[Dam8610]

I think this is a fair assessment, the turnovers worry me a little, but he has the tools, I would be willing to bet he can overcome it! I disagree he will be a #10 pick, in fact if the Colts don't trade up I think Houston will take him!

We can only hope to be so lucky that the ghost of Jack Easterby will rise up and make them do something so colossally stupid as to draft Will Levis when one of CJ Stroud and Bryce Young is on the board available to them. That would almost be as good as the Jaguars botching the Lawrence pick.

Increasing noise, including Lamar's tweet this morning, that he is out of Baltimore.

Worth the trade?

As long as there's a franchise tag, he doesn't exactly get to make that decision.

Lamar is a great player, but I can't see him as a Colt, not sure how successful he would be here.

I think the Colts are probably the best equipped team outside of Baltimore in the NFL to implement the style of offense that he's been successful in.

[Spike]

We can only hope to be so lucky that the ghost of Jack Easterby will rise up and make them do something so colossally stupid as to draft Will Levis when one of CJ Stroud and Bryce Young is on the board available to them. That would almost be as good as the Jaguars botching the Lawrence pick.



As long as there's a franchise tag, he doesn't exactly get to make that decision.



I think the Colts are probably the best equipped team outside of Baltimore in the NFL to implement the style of offense that he's been successful in.

Uh, Lawrence has the Jags going to the next round of the playoffs. How did the Jags actually botch the Lawrence pick? Makes absolutely no sense, but I guess keep beating that damn drum for Mac Jones.

[CletusPyle]

I want to go on the record to say I would not trade up to get any of these QBs, Colts at 4 are guaranteed a solid pick and the bust potential of all of these guys is about equal! I do like Levis but no way would I give up our #4 and our #36 pick for him when it is very possible he might be there at #4 anyway!

[ChoppedWood]

Uh, Lawrence has the Jags going to the next round of the playoffs. How did the Jags actually botch the Lawrence pick? Makes absolutely no sense, but I guess keep beating that damn drum for Mac Jones.

What Lawrence did the other day, was about as Manning as anything since Manning. He was the only QB who it just did not matter how many INT's he threw, at the end, he was going to have his team right there with a chance to win despite what might have been a miserable game otherwise.

Farvhe was close to it, but no one has been able to do that like Manning did.

[Dam8610]

Uh, Lawrence has the Jags going to the next round of the playoffs. How did the Jags actually botch the Lawrence pick? Makes absolutely no sense, but I guess keep beating that damn drum for Mac Jones.

The refs had to give Lawrence the Tommy Tutu treatment for him to make that work. Joey Bosa was bear hugged on Lawrence's last TD, which is the only reason that wasn't a sack. Sure would've been nice of the refs to bail Herbert out of 2nd and 19 the way they did for Lawrence as well. I will give Doug Pederson a lot of credit, though, he's really good at designing offensive gameplans that mask the deficiencies of mediocre QBs.

[Dam8610]

I want to go on the record to say I would not trade up to get any of these QBs, Colts at 4 are guaranteed a solid pick and the bust potential of all of these guys is about equal! I do like Levis but no way would I give up our #4 and our #36 pick for him when it is very possible he might be there at #4 anyway!

Bust potential of Stroud and Young are minimal. Bust potential of Levis is through the roof.

[Dam8610]

What Lawrence did the other day, was about as Manning as anything since Manning. He was the only QB who it just did not matter how many INT's he threw, at the end, he was going to have his team right there with a chance to win despite what might have been a miserable game otherwise.

Farvhe was close to it, but no one has been able to do that like Manning did.

And here I thought people would compare it to the 2014 Luck game (complete with the Superman dive and everything). Luck, of course, didn't get repeatedly bailed out by the refs, but these are apparently minor details.

[Spike]

The refs had to give Lawrence the Tommy Tutu treatment for him to make that work. Joey Bosa was bear hugged on Lawrence's last TD, which is the only reason that wasn't a sack. Sure would've been nice of the refs to bail Herbert out of 2nd and 19 the way they did for Lawrence as well. I will give Doug Pederson a lot of credit, though, he's really good at designing offensive gameplans that mask the deficiencies of mediocre QBs.

That shit happens in every game. Refs suck.

Doesn't diminish what Lawrence accomplished. You just seem to not be able to accept the fact that you were wrong about Lawrence and Jones.

Hell Dam, we're all wrong sometimes. Some more than others though.

[Pez]

Seems like Young's stock is on the rise and if we cant him we would need to trade up to get him. I saw one mock that had us trading up to get him first overall, and earlier mock that had us picking him straight up 4th overall.

Overall I like Young over Stroud and Levis. The colts absolutely need a week 1 starter, and young is the closest to that from the three top candidates. I'm not confident we have the talent on our coaching staff to develop a "project" QB properly.

While I would be surprised if we do it, I would not be opposed to picking up two QBs.

[CletusPyle]

Bust potential of Stroud and Young are minimal. Bust potential of Levis is through the roof.

I disagree with minimal, plus I don't see either of them being very durable! We shall see!

[ChaosTheory]

Seems like Young's stock is on the rise and if we cant him we would need to trade up to get him. I saw one mock that had us trading up to get him first overall, and earlier mock that had us picking him straight up 4th overall.

Overall I like Young over Stroud and Levis. The colts absolutely need a week 1 starter, and young is the closest to that from the three top candidates. I'm not confident we have the talent on our coaching staff to develop a "project" QB properly.

While I would be surprised if we do it, I would not be opposed to picking up two QBs.

We don't have a coaching staff at all.

[Chromeburn]

Reportedly according to Twitter rumors Colts like Stroud, Levis, and Richardson and would be happy with any of the three. Long way to go though and still need a head coach and offensive system.

[JAFF]

Bust potential of Stroud and Young are minimal. Bust potential of Levis is through the roof.

Saying that, Stroud is the last guy I would draft. Tom Tupa is the last OSU Qb, to go to the NFL pro-bowl, too bad it was as a punter.

[ChaosTheory]

Reportedly according to Twitter rumors Colts like Stroud, Levis, and Richardson and would be happy with any of the three. Long way to go though and still need a head coach and offensive system.

The size issue with Young taking him off the Colts board would seem to make sense. Ballard obviously sees the value in measurables.

Being short is one issue... He's listed at 194lbs., but I keep reading he's more like 180-185lbs. Drew Brees was 213lbs. at the combine. Kyler Murray was 207lbs.

[ChoppedWood]

Reportedly according to Twitter rumors Colts like Stroud, Levis, and Richardson and would be happy with any of the three. Long way to go though and still need a head coach and offensive system.

Was just listening to the show before JMV (not sure what they even call it now). Whoever was speaking was running through this and talking about how he does not think Ballard would be brave enough to draft Richardson. His words were "Ballard is scared to death of drafting a 1st round QB and he's already gone on record and stated his is going to do absolutely everything to get whichever one he is convinced is a lock".

Man that absolutely sucks, it sucks that we have a dude that is perceived to be a coward running personnel. So he's at the table and all the other players are laughing as they take his stacks over and over again because he sucks at the game. Why is this guy allowed to continue receiving a check?

[Dam8610]

Saying that, Stroud is the last guy I would draft. Tom Tupa is the last OSU Qb, to go to the NFL pro-bowl, too bad it was as a punter.

Who was the last Cal QB prior to Aaron Rodgers? How about the last Texas Tech QB before Mahomes? Wyoming QB before Allen? Ooh, Clemson QB before DeShaun Watson? LSU or OSU QB before Burrow?

[JAFF]

Who was the last Cal QB prior to Aaron Rodgers? How about the last Texas Tech QB before Mahomes? Wyoming QB before Allen? Ooh, Clemson QB before DeShaun Watson? LSU or OSU QB before Burrow?

I can tell you that Drew Brees was headed to Wyoming, but he changed his mind to follow Joe Tiller to Purdue, as an institution has done better than OSU for Qb’s.

[Dam8610]

I can tell you that Drew Brees was headed to Wyoming, but he changed his mind to follow Joe Tiller to Purdue, as an institution has done better than OSU for Qb’s.

That doesn't answer any of the questions, but I think my point is proven.

[JAFF]

That doesn't answer any of the questions, but I think my point is proven.

Some facts

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quarterback_U

https://saturdaytradition.com/big-ten-football/4-b1g-schools-have-produced-the-most-nfl-qbs-since-2013-according-to-fox-college-football/

Justin fields may work out. But as a history OSU sucks when it comes to producing Qbs for the NFL

[apballin]

Reportedly according to Twitter rumors Colts like Stroud, Levis, and Richardson and would be happy with any of the three. Long way to go though and still need a head coach and offensive system.

I still say it’s Levis

[apballin]

Who was the last Cal QB prior to Aaron Rodgers? How about the last Texas Tech QB before Mahomes? Wyoming QB before Allen? Ooh, Clemson QB before DeShaun Watson? LSU or OSU QB before Burrow?

It’s the constant clean pocket and the shitty competition for me. Not saying he’s not gonna pan out but of the 2 I’d choose Levis he played better competition and was constantly under duress that’s more likely a simulation of what he’s gonna see at the next level

[Dam8610]

Some facts

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quarterback_U

https://saturdaytradition.com/big-ten-football/4-b1g-schools-have-produced-the-most-nfl-qbs-since-2013-according-to-fox-college-football/

Justin fields may work out. But as a history OSU sucks when it comes to producing Qbs for the NFL

Here, let me answer the questions I posed:

Cal: Joe Kapp in 1969
Texas Tech: No one
Wyoming: No one
Clemson: No one
LSU: Bert Jones in 1976

I know Purdue is historically known for producing NFL starting caliber QBs, I'd be a pretty bad alum if I didn't. But Aidan O'Connell is not likely to be an NFL starter, and CJ Stroud is. As I said before, school pedigree has never been less relevant to evaluating QBs than it is today.

[Dam8610]

It’s the constant clean pocket and the shitty competition for me. Not saying he’s not gonna pan out but of the 2 I’d choose Levis he played better competition and was constantly under duress that’s more likely a simulation of what he’s gonna see at the next level

If you think Stroud had a constant clean pocket, that tells me you didn't actually watch him play. For the life of me I don't understand why anyone thinks highly of Paris Johnson Jr., he nearly got Stroud killed with regularity as OSU's starting LT.

As for Levis, he could be the next Josh Allen or the next Carson Wentz, but Carson Wentz is the much more likely outcome.

[apballin]

If you think Stroud had a constant clean pocket, that tells me you didn't actually watch him play. For the life of me I don't understand why anyone thinks highly of Paris Johnson Jr., he nearly got Stroud killed with regularity as OSU's starting LT.

As for Levis, he could be the next Josh Allen or the next Carson Wentz, but Carson Wentz is the much more likely outcome.

Levi’s was sacked 58 times in 2 seasons

Stroud was sacked 25 times his entire college career ——25

Burrow in 2 seasons sacked 69 times

But he may be more like your boy Lawrence he was sacked all of 11 times his last year at Clemson

[Dam8610]

Levi’s was sacked 58 times in 2 seasons

Stroud was sacked 25 times his entire college career ——25

Burrow in 2 seasons sacked 69 times

But he may be more like your boy Lawrence he was sacked all of 11 times his last year at Clemson

This is why it's important to watch the games. Him only being sacked 25 times is a testament to his ability to sense and escape pressure, which he did consistently on the film of him that I watched. There were typically 4-6 plays per game where he could've been sacked, but instead rolled out of the pocket, kept his eyes downfield, and turned it into a positive pass play.

[Oldcolt]

I can not for the life of me see why in the hell it is relevant that a school has or hasn't produced great NFL QBs before. Schools don't have a great QB until they do. There is no magic that rubs off or doesn't just because you went to some specific school.

[CletusPyle]

This is why it's important to watch the games. Him only being sacked 25 times is a testament to his ability to sense and escape pressure, which he did consistently on the film of him that I watched. There were typically 4-6 plays per game where he could've been sacked, but instead rolled out of the pocket, kept his eyes downfield, and turned it into a positive pass play.

Are you Stroud's agent?:D

[YDFL Commish]

I don't prescribe to the theory that OSU can't produce a good QB, because of past failures.

But I do prescribe to the theory that somehow we are cursed with Ohio State players. This goes all the way back to Schlicther and continues with Quitcock, Doss, Gonzalez, Lewis, Campbell, Hooker, Mewhort, Hartsock. Did I miss anyone?

[ChaosTheory]

This is why it's important to watch the games. Him only being sacked 25 times is a testament to his ability to sense and escape pressure, which he did consistently on the film of him that I watched.

I'll back you up here. Not for Stroud in particular because I haven't yet watched enough. But generally, avoiding sacks is a QB skill you wouldn't be able to tell just from looking at numbers. Manning and Marino are by far the best QB's at avoiding sacks and it wasn't because they always had stellar protection.


I can not for the life of me see why in the hell it is relevant that a school has or hasn't produced great NFL QBs before. Schools don't have a great QB until they do. There is no magic that rubs off or doesn't just because you went to some specific school.

Conflating correlation with causation.

[JAFF]

Here, let me answer the questions I posed:

Cal: Joe Kapp in 1969
Texas Tech: No one
Wyoming: No one
Clemson: No one
LSU: Bert Jones in 1976

I know Purdue is historically known for producing NFL starting caliber QBs, I'd be a pretty bad alum if I didn't. But Aidan O'Connell is not likely to be an NFL starter, and CJ Stroud is. As I said before, school pedigree has never been less relevant to evaluating QBs than it is today.

Cal: people go to Cal to be scientists, and they dont lower their ed standards for sports. Rodgers is smart enough and like Allen a better athlete than scouted.
But Cal has quite a list of nfl QBS: Steve Bartkowski, Vince Ferragamo (shared with Nebraska), Craig Morton, Aaron Rodgers and Joe Kapp

Texas Tech: Right coach but he left and they are back on track on a stepping stone for a good coaches next job. FYI, same problem at Purdue, before and after Tiller.

Wyoming: Ever been there? Its farm kid heaven, and closer to God at 7000+ ft above sea level. Allen was a star student in FFA, and from a small rural school, it was man , moment, history. BTW, if Tiller stays at Wyo, he would have had Brees to start, a list of very good athletes becoming good Qbs. Much like BYU, which has produced more NFL Qbs than OSU.

Clemson: new coach with new offense to take on ACC and old time coaching. Same with LSU and the SEC. Alabama had Nameth and Stabler, how many great throwing Qbs have they developed since then?

OSU has been a dominant program for two reasons, they can run the ball and they can stop the run. OSU typically have very good O and D linemen. Which attracts really good running backs. And when the weather gets crappy in October and November, you win by running the ball.

Purdue: many quarterbacks, most grads in the NFL. No national championships. How many great running backs have come from Purdue? What ever level, you win games and championships by running the ball. Its how coaches keep their jobs.

Look, college programs are not designed to be farm teams for the NFL. College teams can succeed by putting a great athlete at QB and giving him two option pass plays and then let them be athletes and run.

Teams dont need a great overall athletic QB to win. He needs:
1. Brains, think on the fly, teachable, accepts tough coaching
2. Arm talent. Accuracy
3. Leads by example
4. Courage, learn from mistakes

How does Stroud grade on the above

[Dam8610]

Cal: people go to Cal to be scientists, and they dont lower their ed standards for sports. Rodgers is smart enough and like Allen a better athlete than scouted.
But Cal has quite a list of nfl QBS: Steve Bartkowski, Vince Ferragamo (shared with Nebraska), Craig Morton, Aaron Rodgers and Joe Kapp

Texas Tech: Right coach but he left and they are back on track on a stepping stone for a good coaches next job. FYI, same problem at Purdue, before and after Tiller.

Wyoming: Ever been there? Its farm kid heaven, and closer to God at 7000+ ft above sea level. Allen was a star student in FFA, and from a small rural school, it was man , moment, history. BTW, if Tiller stays at Wyo, he would have had Brees to start, a list of very good athletes becoming good Qbs. Much like BYU, which has produced more NFL Qbs than OSU.

Clemson: new coach with new offense to take on ACC and old time coaching. Same with LSU and the SEC. Alabama had Nameth and Stabler, how many great throwing Qbs have they developed since then?

OSU has been a dominant program for two reasons, they can run the ball and they can stop the run. OSU typically have very good O and D linemen. Which attracts really good running backs. And when the weather gets crappy in October and November, you win by running the ball.

Purdue: many quarterbacks, most grads in the NFL. No national championships. How many great running backs have come from Purdue? What ever level, you win games and championships by running the ball. Its how coaches keep their jobs.

Look, college programs are not designed to be farm teams for the NFL. College teams can succeed by putting a great athlete at QB and giving him two option pass plays and then let them be athletes and run.

My point was that school pedigree is not relevant to evaluating present day college prospects. Yes, OSU has historically been a run first program, but they haven't been that since Urban Meyer took over, and they certainly haven't been that under Ryan Day. Stroud is not just an athlete they stuck at the QB position that can't read defenses. If he were his rushing numbers would be much better and his passing numbers much worse.

Teams dont need a great overall athletic QB to win. He needs:
1. Brains, think on the fly, teachable, accepts tough coaching
2. Arm talent. Accuracy
3. Leads by example
4. Courage, learn from mistakes

How does Stroud grade on the above

1) I have no idea about how he "accepts tough coaching", I don't have access to Ryan Day or his staff. I haven't heard them say anything bad about him though, and his draft stock would likely fall if they did. As for the rest, the best attribute of a QB I can come up with based on your description is ability to read a defense and pre-snap reads. He does those things well for a rookie NFL QB. He uses his eyes effectively to move coverage favorably.

2) Stroud and Young are hands down the two most accurate QBs in the class. Stroud put on an arm talent masterclass against Georgia, I left a video link earlier in the thread if you care to go watch it.

3) Something that's not exactly ascertainable in game film, but I will say once again in the Georgia game he was down several players against the best defense in college football and ended up using his athleticism to put his team in position to win at the end. This was in part because Georgia's defense was so scared of him beating them with his arm that they forgot to account for him taking off out of the pocket.

4) I've seen him stand in against a pass rush and make throws knowing he was going to take a shot. He also quite frequently escapes pressure and turns a potential negative play into a positive one. He certainly doesn't shrink under pressure. He also doesn't turn the ball over much and protects it well.

[Chromeburn]

I can not for the life of me see why in the hell it is relevant that a school has or hasn't produced great NFL QBs before. Schools don't have a great QB until they do. There is no magic that rubs off or doesn't just because you went to some specific school.

Scout the player not the helmet. You can scout the program, how they teach and the quality of what they teach. But just looking at the symbol on the helmet, that doesn’t do anything.

For example: The quality of the coaching at Bama is so good, teams say that the players are maxed out and that they might not have as high a ceiling as other guys. What you see in college is close to what you see in pros.

[JAFF]

I can not for the life of me see why in the hell it is relevant that a school has or hasn't produced great NFL QBs before. Schools don't have a great QB until they do. There is no magic that rubs off or doesn't just because you went to some specific school.

Whats the old Woody Hays quote?

When you pass the ball three things can happen in two of them are bad.

Taylors first 2 years he had 1000 yard seasons. This year, he couldnt stay health and the Colts couldnt block, he gained less than 900 yards.

If the Colts, draft any Qb, they had better sign some FA’s O linemen and draft as many mobile O linemen as they can, so they can keep who ever is back there from taking a beating. Qb or Rb

[Colts And Orioles]

I can not for the life of me see why in the hell it is relevant that a school has or hasn't produced great NFL QBs before. Schools don't have a great QB until they do. There is no magic that rubs off or doesn't just because you went to some specific school.





o


I believe that when people see coincidences piling up, they like to point it out and talk about it ...... even if they don't really believe that it's necessarily relevant, it's a "thing", and people (in general) tend to gravitate towards "things."

o

[Oldcolt]

I don't prescribe to the theory that OSU can't produce a good QB, because of past failures.

But I do prescribe to the theory that somehow we are cursed with Ohio State players. This goes all the way back to Schlicther and continues with Quitcock, Doss, Gonzalez, Lewis, Campbell, Hooker, Mewhort, Hartsock. Did I miss anyone?

As someone who lived through Schlicther and who does believe in the football gods this makes complete logical sense to me. Your list is painful.

[Colts And Orioles]

I don't prescribe to the theory that OSU can't produce a good QB, because of past failures.

But I do prescribe to the theory that somehow we are cursed with Ohio State players ...... this goes all the way back to Art Schlicther and continues with Quitcock, Doss, Gonzalez, Lewis, Campbell, Hooker, Mewhort, Hartsock ...... did I miss anyone ???











As someone who lived through Schlicther and who does believe in the football Gods, this makes complete logical sense to me. Your list is painful.





o


Ohio State did have one college quarterback whom the Colts converted into a running back ...... and then turned him back into a quarterback out of desperation.




http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_5jRDome29Bs/SzYi0FYaG-I/AAAAAAAAAMc/9PePOSpvIVo/s320/Matte,Tom1_Colts.jpg

o

[YDFL Commish]

o


Ohio State did have one college quarterback whom the Colts converted into a running back ...... and then turned him back into a quarterback out of desperation.




http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_5jRDome29Bs/SzYi0FYaG-I/AAAAAAAAAMc/9PePOSpvIVo/s320/Matte,Tom1_Colts.jpg

o

Yes, I know. Jim Parker was also from Ohio State. That's why it's the curse of Art Schlichter. This all happened after Sclichter.

[Colts And Orioles]

Yes, I know. Jim Parker was also from Ohio State. That's why it's the curse of Art Schlichter. This all happened after Schlichter.





o


Parris Campbell had his healthiest (and best) season so far, and that was with with a horrible offensive line that was blocking for his quarterbacks ...... at 25 years-old, I'm looking forward to seeing him in 2023 and beyond, especially if the Colts improve both the offensive line and the quarterback position.

o

[ChaosTheory]

o


Parris Campbell had his healthiest (and best) season so far, and that was with with a horrible offensive line that was blocking for his quarterbacks ...... at 25 years-old, I'm looking forward to seeing him in 2023 and beyond, especially if the Colts improve both the offensive line and the quarterback position.

o

There's reason to be excited about Campbell. He flashed his explosiveness on the rare occasions our offense could execute. But he was reduced to a possession receiver in most instances. Which is good that he showed he could do that as well, not just be a gimmick and deep-ball guy.

If the QB/OL situation can stretch the field more (couldn't possibly be less), I think he'll do well.

[apballin]

I don't prescribe to the theory that OSU can't produce a good QB, because of past failures.

But I do prescribe to the theory that somehow we are cursed with Ohio State players. This goes all the way back to Schlicther and continues with Quitcock, Doss, Gonzalez, Lewis, Campbell, Hooker, Mewhort, Hartsock. Did I miss anyone?

OFCOURSE you did and how dare you forget the legend of Roy fuckin Hall

[JAFF]

o


I believe that when people see coincidences piling up, they like to point it out and talk about it ...... even if they don't really believe that it's necessarily relevant, it's a "thing", and people (in general) tend to gravitate towards "things."

o

I dont agree with that. When Joe Tiller showed up for Purdue, he brought the idea of basket ball on grass and he recruited Qbs that could execute this game plan. He found fast skinny kids who could catch and run, even if it was on the back canvas

What do they do well in Wisconsin? Run the ball. They recruit guys who are as wide as they are tall and block the hell out of the opposing D. The weather is cold and snowy and a good running game doesnt care about the weather.

For years Fisher De Barry ran the wishbone/wingbone, and won a ton of games. He didnt have the biggest, or the fastest, but he more often than not, he had the smartest. They ran the ball on everyone. A smart Qb made the D wrong, and put the ball where it needed to go. Navy just finished a 10 year plus of competitive football letting smart guys think.

Winning teams have winning plans. If I’m USC, passing is going to a big part of my offense. If I’m Nebraska, I going back to recruiting and building my team from home grown talent and getting them into the weight room. Go back to getting the best talent from Dakotas and Wyoming. Then line up and run the ball.

[omahacolt]

I don't prescribe to the theory that OSU can't produce a good QB, because of past failures.

But I do prescribe to the theory that somehow we are cursed with Ohio State players. This goes all the way back to Schlicther and continues with Quitcock, Doss, Gonzalez, Lewis, Campbell, Hooker, Mewhort, Hartsock. Did I miss anyone?

Doss will always be a legend.

[YDFL Commish]

Doss will always be a legend.

Only in your mind.

[Colts And Orioles]

I dont agree with that. When Joe Tiller showed up for Purdue, he brought the idea of basket ball on grass and he recruited Qbs that could execute this game plan. He found fast skinny kids who could catch and run, even if it was on the back canvas

What do they do well in Wisconsin? Run the ball. They recruit guys who are as wide as they are tall and block the hell out of the opposing D. The weather is cold and snowy and a good running game doesnt care about the weather.

For years Fisher De Barry ran the wishbone/wingbone, and won a ton of games. He didnt have the biggest, or the fastest, but he more often than not, he had the smartest. They ran the ball on everyone. A smart Qb made the D wrong, and put the ball where it needed to go. Navy just finished a 10 year plus of competitive football letting smart guys think.

Winning teams have winning plans. If I’m USC, passing is going to a big part of my offense. If I’m Nebraska, I going back to recruiting and building my team from home grown talent and getting them into the weight room. Go back to getting the best talent from Dakotas and Wyoming. Then line up and run the ball.




o


Also, Jimmy Johnson when he was at Miami-Fla.

Johnson converted defensive backs into linebackers, and converted linebackers into linemen ...... the result was that he had smaller, more athletic players that were a big part of the continuation of the perennial powerhouse that Howard Schellenberger started before Johnson got there.

To a certain degree, Tony Dungy did that when he coached in the pros ...... when asked about having a disadvantage in size because some of his players were smaller/lighter than usual, Dungy said "Give me the athletes."


But the examples that you gave (and the one that I added to what you were saying) were not necessarily in the same context of what I was alluding to. Those were all examples of success within coaching systems and coaching philosophies, something that is unquestionably factual (such as the philosophies and success of NFL coaches like Bill Parcells, Bill Walsh, Vince Lombardi, and Bill Belichick) ....... the "thing" that I was referring to was more that of the presumption of failure, like the presumption that a position-player is necessarily doomed to fail in the pros because very few players from the college that he attended ever succeeded at his given position.

o