JMV reporting update on Luck

[1965southpaw]

Just listening to JMV and he's reporting via his sources (same sources he used to break the Manning neck injury news a few years back) that as of yesterday Andrew is throwing touch passes about 30ish yards downfield. He was quick to clarify that he's still very much day to day as they monitor how his shoulder reacts to each new milestone in his recovery.....ie still uncertain whether he will make the season opener with the Rams which is 25 days out but it seems he is definitely progressing and definitely throwing footballs not tennis balls at this stage. My impression is that his sources are Colts insiders and reliable but as with all anonymous sources I will take this with a grain of salt until I see him throwing myself. Also, in addition to throwing accurately with a clean pocket I wonder when he will be ready to take some hits when the pocket breaks down.....With that in mind, I still think it's likely he misses the first game or two as they seem to really be taking a long term approach vs. hurry up and get him on the field. Still, I think this is a bit of positive news.

[DrSpaceman]

That is good to know, and thanks for the info, but honestly its just confirms what we all kind of suspected and/or knew anyway thus far.

He is progressing, he will be back probably sometime in September but not sure it will be for week one as of yet.

[njcoltfan]

If Luck doesn't come off PUP next week, I think he misses the first week, and probably week two also.

[Indiana V2]

If Luck doesn't come off PUP next week, I think he misses the first week, and probably week two also.

Honestly when Luck was placed on the PUP list i figured the team was planning on him missing the first few weeks of the season.

[rcubed]

Living in LA, I was planning on going to the first game against the Rams. It's looking like I will not spend the money on tickets and just watch from home.

[1965southpaw]

Living in LA, I was planning on going to the first game against the Rams. It's looking like I will not spend the money on tickets and just watch from home.


They are now reporting Kelly out for 2 months......I think it's a lock that they will not put Luck under a rookie center against the Rams. Save your $$

[smitty46953]

Whoever is back there at QB , they better hope Aaron Donald does holdout. He will kill a UDFA Center or about any other Center in league. :cool:

[njcoltfan]

They are now reporting Kelly out for 2 months......I think it's a lock that they will not put Luck under a rookie center against the Rams. Save your $$

The Colts medical staff has got to be Moe, Larry, and Curly!!

[indycolts2]

This should have been the news about 2 weeks ago. What fucking good does it to do to sit on this until now? Unless they didn't want some F/A to have leverage in a negotiation. Priceless that the guy they signed that would have been the backup is also unavailable.

Not crying "the sky is falling" but one thing this team needed going into this season was good health. That's kind of stating the obvious because every team needs that but if Luck is going to miss any time at all they need all hands on deck everywhere else. Get tired of that "next man up" mantra particularly when it comes out of Pagano's mouth.

[indycolts2]

I'm not an excuse maker for Pagano but I can certainly understand the frustration on his part. The list of players in the article is priceless.

http://www.espn.com/blog/indianapolis-colts/post/_/id/21083/chuck-pagano-gets-on-soap-box-to-voice-frustration-over-colts-injuries

[Thorgrim]

Screw Clappy. Football is tough and injuries are unavoidable to some extent but good conditioning and sound technique can go a long way towards alleviating both frequency and severity of injuries. Fundamentals has not been a strong point with this team for a long time.

[apballin]

Sucks about Kelly but if Luck is ready he's going to play you can't hold him out just because Kelly is hurt they are not a tandem start

[omahacolt]

Screw Clappy. Football is tough and injuries are unavoidable to some extent but good conditioning and sound technique can go a long way towards alleviating both frequency and severity of injuries. Fundamentals has not been a strong point with this team for a long time.

Well said

[Dewey 5]

I'm not an excuse maker for Pagano but I can certainly understand the frustration on his part. The list of players in the article is priceless.

http://www.espn.com/blog/indianapolis-colts/post/_/id/21083/chuck-pagano-gets-on-soap-box-to-voice-frustration-over-colts-injuries

Pagano ready to play the injury card again for his incompetence to save his job. Ballard won't buy it but Irsay will. Then he will make clappy & Ballard go in a room & buttfuck each other until Pagano convinces Ballard that it's not his fault that the team blows.

The beat goes on with no end in sight.

.

[albany ed]

Pagano ready to play the injury card again for his incompetence to save his job. Ballard won't buy it but Irsay will. Then he will make clappy & Ballard go in a room & buttfuck each other until Pagano convinces Ballard that it's not his fault that the team blows.

The beat goes on with no end in sight.

.

You really need to get out more.

[Racehorse]

you really need to get laid more.

fify

[IndyNorm]

Pagano ready to play the injury card again for his incompetence to save his job. Ballard won't buy it but Irsay will. Then he will make clappy & Ballard go in a room & buttfuck each other until Pagano convinces Ballard that it's not his fault that the team blows.

The beat goes on with no end in sight.

.

If that happens I hope Ballard bends Clappy over and rails him so hard that Clappy can't shit right for a year.

[Indiana V2]

Screw Clappy. Football is tough and injuries are unavoidable to some extent but good conditioning and sound technique can go a long way towards alleviating both frequency and severity of injuries. Fundamentals has not been a strong point with this team for a long time.

Why Irsay decided to waste yet another season by keeping Pagano is unfathomable, the sooner Pags is gone the sooner the franchise can be taken seriously again. What a shame.

[apballin]

Why Irsay decided to waste yet another season by keeping Pagano is unfathomable, the sooner Pags is gone the sooner the franchise can be taken seriously again. What a shame.

Why Ballard gets a pass on this is beyond me, the dude preached competition all off season yet failed to address certain positions lacking depth. Injuries aren't Pagano's fault not having anyone behind the guys is on Ballard, let's reanalyze the draft and FA pickups- did we really need Aiken? Christine Michael? lol

Let's be honest he nailed the obvious= Hankins, Simon, Sheard, Hooker, and Wilson

The rest of the draft and the rest of the FA's may not contribute shit this year if ever

[sherck]

Why Ballard gets a pass on this is beyond me, the dude preached competition all off season yet failed to address certain positions lacking depth. Injuries aren't Pagano's fault not having anyone behind the guys is on Ballard, let's reanalyze the draft and FA pickups- did we really need Aiken? Christine Michael? lol

Let's be honest he nailed the obvious= Hankins, Simon, Sheard, Hooker, and Wilson

The rest of the draft and the rest of the FA's may not contribute shit this year if ever
Hmmmmm.....

Woods = Starting NT
Stewart = Depth NT / Depth DT
Banner = Depth OT3 or OT4
Bostic = Starting ILB
Hairston = Nickle CB or CB4 (Davis, Wilson, Melvin, Morris/Hairston)
Basham = OLB3 whom will rotation in a lot

Nice tinted glasses. While it was obvious that retaining Pagano was Irsay's call, trying to say that Ballard did not address depth issues is pretty silly. He brought in a ton of guys for depth at many different positions.

Walk Worthy,

[Racehorse]

Why Ballard gets a pass on this is beyond me, the dude preached competition all off season yet failed to address certain positions lacking depth. Injuries aren't Pagano's fault not having anyone behind the guys is on Ballard, let's reanalyze the draft and FA pickups- did we really need Aiken? Christine Michael? lol

Let's be honest he nailed the obvious= Hankins, Simon, Sheard, Hooker, and Wilson

The rest of the draft and the rest of the FA's may not contribute shit this year if ever

Holy Stupidity, Batman!

This post is so bad, I don't even know where to start! Did someone hack your account?

[IndyNorm]

Why Ballard gets a pass on this is beyond me, the dude preached competition all off season yet failed to address certain positions lacking depth. Injuries aren't Pagano's fault not having anyone behind the guys is on Ballard, let's reanalyze the draft and FA pickups- did we really need Aiken? Christine Michael? lol

Let's be honest he nailed the obvious= Hankins, Simon, Sheard, Hooker, and Wilson

The rest of the draft and the rest of the FA's may not contribute shit this year if ever

Ballard actually did address C/OG depth with Schwenke. Unfortunately got injured near the end of OTAs, which is even less the fault of the GM and the head coach. IMHO they shouldn't have released Blythe before TC but maybe he saw the writing on the wall and asked to be let go.

As far as depth at other positions, you can't expect him to fix everything in one off season.

[Chromeburn]

I can't help in the back of my mind wonder if Ballard and Irsay think of this year as a rebuilding yer. 16+ under the cap, no real backup QB. Starting QB and starting center both down to at the latest, mid-season.

[Chromeburn]

Pagano ready to play the injury card again for his incompetence to save his job. Ballard won't buy it but Irsay will. Then he will make clappy & Ballard go in a room & buttfuck each other until Pagano convinces Ballard that it's not his fault that the team blows.

The beat goes on with no end in sight.

.

Don't know if it will save him this time around though. I just hate changing schemes. Then the players have to learn it. You have to draft players to fit it. Whole thing is a headache.

[omahacolt]

Don't know if it will save him this time around though. I just hate changing schemes. Then the players have to learn it. You have to draft players to fit it. Whole thing is a headache.

and clappy pagano isnt a fucking headache

[Chromeburn]

and clappy pagano isnt a fucking headache

It's pick your poison. If we could stay with a 3-4 I would be happy. A change might rejuvenate the team.

[Hoopsdoc]

Don't know if it will save him this time around though. I just hate changing schemes. Then the players have to learn it. You have to draft players to fit it. Whole thing is a headache.

Dude, a good coach can and should make it work. You can't stick with what you KNOW won't work because you hate making changes.

Like a bandaid, just rip it off fast.

[omahacolt]

It's pick your poison. If we could stay with a 3-4 I would be happy. A change might rejuvenate the team.

We don't have great 3-4 players and most can play either system. Your concerns are dumb

[apballin]

Holy Stupidity, Batman!

This post is so bad, I don't even know where to start! Did someone hack your account?

Nah I just hate that everyone is giving Ballard a pass on every move because he's the new "nice guy" GM when there's already been some Grigson like moves IMO

[apballin]

Hmmmmm.....

Woods = Starting NT
Stewart = Depth NT / Depth DT
Banner = Depth OT3 or OT4
Bostic = Starting ILB
Hairston = Nickle CB or CB4 (Davis, Wilson, Melvin, Morris/Hairston)
Basham = OLB3 whom will rotation in a lot

Nice tinted glasses. While it was obvious that retaining Pagano was Irsay's call, trying to say that Ballard did not address depth issues is pretty silly. He brought in a ton of guys for depth at many different positions.

Walk Worthy,

IMO his draft was weak, Hooker was a value pick Wilson was a need Basham was a waste when you signed Simon, Sheard, Mingo, and still have Ayers

So far Basham, Hairston, and Walker look terrible. ILB was a dire need coming into the draft and you wait until late to draft Walker??? Every great defense has that leader in the middle and it's still a hole on this D, you grabbed your Ngata (Hankins) your Ed Reed (Hooker) so wheres Ray Lewis???

[DrSpaceman]

You aren't going to rebuild a whole bad defense in one year

especially when your coach sucks as well and is one of the primary problems

[apballin]

You aren't going to rebuild a whole bad defense in one year

especially when your coach sucks as well and is one of the primary problems

Pagano doesn't suck. I'm sure John Gruden/Madden would be getting the same results with whose out there in 2 preseason games

[rcubed]

Oh yay, pagano vs sucky roster resurrection

[njcoltfan]

I can't help in the back of my mind wonder if Ballard and Irsay think of this year as a rebuilding yer. 16+ under the cap, no real backup QB. Starting QB and starting center both down to at the latest, mid-season.

In all honesty, this is a rebuilding year.

[omahacolt]

Pagano doesn't suck. I'm sure John Gruden/Madden would be getting the same results with whose out there in 2 preseason games

You are fucking clueless

[Indiana V2]

Pagano doesn't suck. I'm sure John Gruden/Madden would be getting the same results with whose out there in 2 preseason games

You're either related to Pagano, or Jim Irsay, if you don't think Chuck sucks.

[IndyNorm]

Pagano doesn't suck. I'm sure John Gruden/Madden would be getting the same results with whose out there in 2 preseason games

The worst play call in NFL history begs to differ.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zrtzpdH_uPM

[GoBigBlue88]

Pagano doesn't suck, guys. It's all the assistants he fired before him, the GM, and the hundreds of players that have come and gone that suck. Not Pagano!

[Indiana V2]

Pagano doesn't suck, guys. It's all the assistants he fired before him, the GM, and the hundreds of players that have come and gone that suck. Not Pagano!

Just in case apballin doesn't realize it, this post is a heavy dose of sarcasm.

[Hoopsdoc]

The worst play call in NFL history begs to differ.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zrtzpdH_uPM

Oh good lord. I hadn't rewatched that play a single time until just now. Just figured why do that to myself?

But holy hell-Pagano deserves to be blackballed for life for that moment alone. That was almost surreal in how comically inept it was.

This site needs a facepalm 🤦*♂️ and name it after that play.

Well shit, I guess I'll go slam my nutsack in the car door repeatedly now.

[apballin]

Pagano doesn't suck, guys. It's all the assistants he fired before him, the GM, and the hundreds of players that have come and gone that suck. Not Pagano!

Still doesn't have a losing season as a coach

[apballin]

The worst play call in NFL history begs to differ.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zrtzpdH_uPM

Even Bill Belicheck has made questionable calls on 4th down

I'd say the Seahawks passin from the 2 yard line in the Superbowl with Marshawn Lynch is the worst call in history

So yes 1 bad play call from years ago doesn't really help your case

[apballin]

You are fucking clueless

I'll stick to the facts, don't need clues for that

I don't give a fuck who the coach was right now this teams entire offense other than TY is out

[Luck4Reich]

Still doesn't have a losing season as a coach

You still don't have a post that's worth a shit. Your point?

[apballin]

You still don't have a post that's worth a shit. Your point?

Like I said I speak facts, how you feel about what I post is your opinion and only that, and that don't mean shit to me

[Butter]

Even Bill Belicheck has made questionable calls on 4th down

I'd say the Seahawks passin from the 2 yard line in the Superbowl with Marshawn Lynch is the worst call in history

So yes 1 bad play call from years ago doesn't really help your case

There is this thing called the false equivalence.

[Dam8610]

There is this thing called the false equivalence.

https://zulja.files.wordpress.com/2014/06/inigo_montoya.jpeg

[Butter]

Eh, I maybe a bit off, but comparing Belichick making a bad call to Pagano doing so is way off. Bill makes some risky calls that fail, Pagano constantly does and they all fail.

[IndyNorm]

Still doesn't have a losing season as a coach

It's b/c our division is a joke. Put us in any other division and his record would be .300 at best.

[IndyNorm]

Even Bill Belicheck has made questionable calls on 4th down

I'd say the Seahawks passin from the 2 yard line in the Superbowl with Marshawn Lynch is the worst call in history

So yes 1 bad play call from years ago doesn't really help your case

Whatever helps you sleep at night, lol.

[Dam8610]

Eh, I maybe a bit off, but comparing Belichick making a bad call to Pagano doing so is way off. Bill makes some risky calls that fail, Pagano constantly does and they all fail.

Belicheat has cost himself conference championships with his poor decisions. Carroll has cost himself a Super Bowl with a bad decision. They're generally considered two of the best coaches in the game. Pagano's cited bad decision cost a team that was extremely overmatched from a talent perspective a chance to win a regular season game. Not nearly as bad in the grand scheme of things.

[sherck]

Belicheat has cost himself conference championships with his poor decisions. Carroll has cost himself a Super Bowl with a bad decision. They're generally considered two of the best coaches in the game. Pagano's cited bad decision cost a team that was extremely overmatched from a talent perspective a chance to win a regular season game. Not nearly as bad in the grand scheme of things.
If it had only happened once.....



Walk Worthy,

[rcubed]

Belicheat has cost himself conference championships with his poor decisions. Carroll has cost himself a Super Bowl with a bad decision. They're generally considered two of the best coaches in the game. Pagano's cited bad decision cost a team that was extremely overmatched from a talent perspective a chance to win a regular season game. Not nearly as bad in the grand scheme of things.
the issue here isnt the timing, its the decision making.

BB went goes for it on 4th down because the stats say its not much different than punting. He runs a designed play and sometimes it works, sometimes it doesnt.

PC tried to out think everyone and throw when the entire world was expecting run. The play itself wasnt terrible, the defender made a great play on the ball. Yes he probably should have run it, but he made a calculated decision.

Pagano tried some fucked up play that, by the looks of it, had zero chance of any success. They team was obviously not prepared to run whatever they had planned. From what I remember the ball was not supposed to be hiked. NE wasnt jumping offsides so what, we take a delay of game or burn a timeout? But instead the players were not prepared and they hiked the ball putting the colts in forever infamy.

Point is pagano makes bad decisions with under prepared players, this has happened through out his career here. The other two coaches you cited made calculated decisions that didnt work out. That is the difference.

[Dam8610]

the issue here isnt the timing, its the decision making.

BB went goes for it on 4th down because the stats say its not much different than punting. He runs a designed play and sometimes it works, sometimes it doesnt.

PC tried to out think everyone and throw when the entire world was expecting run. The play itself wasnt terrible, the defender made a great play on the ball. Yes he probably should have run it, but he made a calculated decision.

Pagano tried some fucked up play that, by the looks of it, had zero chance of any success. They team was obviously not prepared to run whatever they had planned. From what I remember the ball was not supposed to be hiked. NE wasnt jumping offsides so what, we take a delay of game or burn a timeout? But instead the players were not prepared and they hiked the ball putting the colts in forever infamy.

Point is pagano makes bad decisions with under prepared players, this has happened through out his career here. The other two coaches you cited made calculated decisions that didnt work out. That is the difference.

So losing by 2 in a conference championship where he failed to convert two 4th downs in field goal range is more forgivable for you? Because I'm pretty sure this place would burn down if Pagano did that.

[Dam8610]

If it had only happened once.....



Walk Worthy,

I have to ask: What's with "Walk Worthy"?

[rcubed]

So losing by 2 in a conference championship where he failed to convert two 4th downs in field goal range is more forgivable for you? Because I'm pretty sure this place would burn down if Pagano did that.
that's not what I said.

[sherck]

I have to ask: What's with "Walk Worthy"?I am helping start a Trail Life USA troop which is a Christian alternative to Boy Scouts and their moto is "Walk Worthy" like Boy Scouts is "Be Prepared."

I have been using "Cheers" as a sign-off since 1996. It was time for an update.

Walk Worthy,

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

[Dam8610]

that's not what I said.

No, it's not, but it's one of the ways Belicheat cost himself a conference championship. Why are you trying to minimize Belicheat's poor situational decision making?

[omahacolt]

Belicheat has cost himself conference championships with his poor decisions. Carroll has cost himself a Super Bowl with a bad decision. They're generally considered two of the best coaches in the game. Pagano's cited bad decision cost a team that was extremely overmatched from a talent perspective a chance to win a regular season game. Not nearly as bad in the grand scheme of things.

You have the same mentality of a trump supporter. No matter how much evidence there is to show how shitty it is, you just plug your ears and offer blind support. Disgusting

[omahacolt]

I am helping start a Trail Life USA troop which is a Christian alternative to Boy Scouts and their moto is "Walk Worthy" like Boy Scouts is "Be Prepared."

I have been using "Cheers" as a sign-off since 1996. It was time for an update.

Walk Worthy,

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

Well that is dumber than I would have guessed. A more Christian Boy Scouts?

What does that mean? Boy Scouts mixed with pedophilia?

[sherck]

Well that is dumber than I would have guessed. A more Christian Boy Scouts?

What does that mean? Boy Scouts mixed with pedophilia?Nope.

It means that it is a program to help develop young men who respect others, have values, serve their community and honor God.

Some folks on this board could have used some of that in their youth.

Walk Worthy,

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

[omahacolt]

Nope.

It means that it is a program to help develop young men who respect others, have values, serve their community and honor God.

Some folks on this board could have used some of that in their youth.

Walk Worthy,

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

Yeah. Alr is pretty damn incorrigible

[sherck]

Yeah. Alr is pretty damn incorrigibleAmong others.....

Walk Worthy,

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

[testcase448]

You have the same mentality of a obozo supporter. No matter how much evidence there is to show how shitty it is, you just plug your ears and offer blind support. Disgusting

Fixed for a more accurate read

[IndyNorm]

Belicheat has cost himself conference championships with his poor decisions. Carroll has cost himself a Super Bowl with a bad decision. They're generally considered two of the best coaches in the game. Pagano's cited bad decision cost a team that was extremely overmatched from a talent perspective a chance to win a regular season game. Not nearly as bad in the grand scheme of things.

That play was a lot more than just a bad decision. It was a bunch of terrible ideas and bad decisions that led to that dumpster fire.

-First off it's the worst designed play in the history of football. Whoever drew it up should have been kicked in the nuts and fired immediately for being so unbelievably stupid.

-They actually wasted practice time on that piece of shit idea.

-He decided to try it against the best prepared and most disciplined team in the league. It still probably wouldn't have "worked" but it would have had a much better chance on a poorly coached, undisciplined team like the Bungles or the Raiders.

-The guy who had practiced not snapping the ball all week was injured and out of the game and replaced by someone who had not practiced it and had no idea what was going on, but dumb fuck Clappy McWoodchopper still decided to go ahead with it.

So while it didn't carry the same consequences that Belicheat's and Carroll's bad calls did, when you add up the amount of stupidity that actually went into it Clappy's was head and shoulders worse than theirs.

[Dam8610]

That play was a lot more than just a bad decision. It was a bunch of terrible ideas and bad decisions that led to that dumpster fire.

-First off it's the worst designed play in the history of football. Whoever drew it up should have been kicked in the nuts and fired immediately for being so unbelievably stupid.

-They actually wasted practice time on that piece of shit idea.

-He decided to try it against the best prepared and most disciplined team in the league. It still probably wouldn't have "worked" but it would have had a much better chance on a poorly coached, undisciplined team like the Bungles or the Raiders.

-The guy who had practiced not snapping the ball all week was injured and out of the game and replaced by someone who had not practiced it and had no idea what was going on, but dumb fuck Clappy McWoodchopper still decided to go ahead with it.

So while it didn't carry the same consequences that Belicheat's and Carroll's bad calls did, when you add up the amount of stupidity that actually went into it Clappy's was head and shoulders worse than theirs.

That's all a matter of opinion. My opinion is that if Pagano pulled a 2015 AFCCG Belicheat, everyone on this board would be more upset than they were over that play.

[Dam8610]

You have the same mentality of a trump supporter. No matter how much evidence there is to show how shitty it is, you just plug your ears and offer blind support. Disgusting

That's not support of anything. It's pointing out that literally no coach would ever meet the ridiculously high standard this board sets. Belicheat wouldn't (though I wouldn't want him because he's a cheater). Carroll wouldn't. No coach has ever lived up to the standard this board sets.

[DrSpaceman]

That's not support of anything. It's pointing out that literally no coach would ever meet the ridiculously high standard this board sets. Belicheat wouldn't (though I wouldn't want him because he's a cheater). Carroll wouldn't. No coach has ever lived up to the standard this board sets.

You are right.

And no coach has ever lived up to the standard Irsay has set either, which is a team that wins multiple SBs.

And with QBs like Luck and Manning, that is not an unreasonable standard. Lesser teams have done it with lesser QBs, in particular the Steelers and Giants.

And of the last 4 coaches that have been here in Indy, 3 of them IMO have sucked. Pagano, Mora and Caldwell.

Dungy came the closest to meeting the standard. ANd I would say he did. People complained about him, but its hard to argue too much about the results while he was here overall.

So 3 of the last 4 coaches, I would agree, the message board has not felt they lived up to the standard expected, but rightly so. Its a high, but not unattainable standard. ANd it was a standard set by the owner

[Dam8610]

You are right.

And no coach has ever lived up to the standard Irsay has set either, which is a team that wins multiple SBs.

And with QBs like Luck and Manning, that is not an unreasonable standard. Lesser teams have done it with lesser QBs, in particular the Steelers and Giants.

And of the last 4 coaches that have been here in Indy, 3 of them IMO have sucked. Pagano, Mora and Caldwell.

Dungy came the closest to meeting the standard. ANd I would say he did. People complained about him, but its hard to argue too much about the results while he was here overall.

So 3 of the last 4 coaches, I would agree, the message board has not felt they lived up to the standard expected, but rightly so. Its a high, but not unattainable standard. ANd it was a standard set by the owner

People bitched about Dungy as well, said his game management and time management wasn't good enough and that he was always "outcoached" (see: outcheated) by Belicheat. Don't pretend the standard here is reasonable or set by the owner, because it is clearly neither of those things when there have been many years that the team has won divisions, conferences, etc. and the owner has indicated satisfaction with his coaching staff where many fans here were completely dissatisfied with the results and wanted rid of the coaching staff. Don Shula wouldn't have met this board's standard.

[Indystu2]

Does this seem like history repeating itself?

At the risk of repeating things other have already said, I just have to.

*stands on soap box*

From 1998 through today, this team has relied extensively on a star QB to win games with maybe a few (Freeney, Mathis etc.) defensive stars.
If Manning didn't play the assumption was a loss. No quality backup.
If Luck doesn't play, the assumption is a loss. No quality backup.
Sure we have had great offensive talent, but who would throw to them?

Have they not learned?

Not all teams have a good backup, I get that. But not all teams have the caliber of starting QB that we have been fortunate enough to have. So the drop in playing ability is not as severe for them. Those teams are more well rounded.

The new GM may be starting to correct that, it is a long process. But dangit!
Star QB backup up by a no name, low talent, low expectations, hope we never have to play him backup? WTF?

We open against the friggin' RAMS and it is assumed a loss without Luck at QB.

*you can have this soap box back*

[Coltsalr]

Yeah. Alr is pretty damn incorrigible

Hah, you went with me over Dammy on this one?

[testcase448]

I said it then, I'll say it now. We should have kept Manning, traded the rights to Luck for multiple picks. Built good lines with those picks. Maybe won another S.B. then handed the reins to a good balanced team to a solid, competent if not spectacular QB.
That's the formula the Texans have followed to regulate the Colts to also ran in the weak AFC South. Playoffs for them this year, 5-11 for us
Now we have a poorly coached, no talent with few exceptions, continually rebuilding franchise once again wasting a Franchise QB's career

[Spike]

I said it then, I'll say it now. We should have kept Manning, traded the rights to Luck for multiple picks. Built good lines with those picks. Maybe won another S.B. then handed the reins to a good balanced team to a solid, competent if not spectacular QB.
That's the formula the Texans have followed to regulate the Colts to also ran in the weak AFC South. Playoffs for them this year, 5-11 for us
Now we have a poorly coached, no talent with few exceptions, continually rebuilding franchise once again wasting a Franchise QB's career

Keeping Manning was never really a viable option. His cap hit and the complete lack of talent on the Colts was never going to produce another SB. His injured neck was also a great concern. Denver got completely destroyed by Seattle in the 1st SB with Manning at the helm and they had a hell of a lot more talent than the Colts. The 2nd SB with Denver, Manning had an incredible defense, something the Colts didn't and don't have now. Manning rode his 2nd SB win because of Denver's outstanding defense. Hell, he even got benched for awhile.

The Texans haven't accomplished shit, how many SB wins do they have?

The problem wasn't letting Manning go to take Luck. The problem lies with Irsay, Griggs, and Pags. They are the 3 fucking stooges. Griggs and Pags built the team wrong trying to win immediately. Should have built up the offensive and defensive lines instead of wasting 1st round picks on guys like Dorsett, Werner and trading a 1st for TR. Luck is pretty much the only reason the Colts have been a playoff contender.

Lastly, teams without a pretty damn good QB are screwed when it comes to winning SB's. With all of the Texan's talent, they haven't even sniffed the SB because of their shitty QB play. Same with the Jackoffs.

Ask the Brown, Bills, and Vikings how hard it is to find a quality QB.

As far as trading Luck for multiple picks, based on Griggs and Pags draft picking, I wouldn't have liked those odds.

[Brylok]

I said it then, I'll say it now. We should have kept Manning, traded the rights to Luck for multiple picks. Built good lines with those picks. Maybe won another S.B. then handed the reins to a good balanced team to a solid, competent if not spectacular QB.
That's the formula the Texans have followed to regulate the Colts to also ran in the weak AFC South. Playoffs for them this year, 5-11 for us
Now we have a poorly coached, no talent with few exceptions, continually rebuilding franchise once again wasting a Franchise QB's career
Fuck the Texans. Go away, baitin'.

[DrSpaceman]

I said it then, I'll say it now. We should have kept Manning, traded the rights to Luck for multiple picks. Built good lines with those picks. Maybe won another S.B. then handed the reins to a good balanced team to a solid, competent if not spectacular QB.
That's the formula the Texans have followed to regulate the Colts to also ran in the weak AFC South. Playoffs for them this year, 5-11 for us
Now we have a poorly coached, no talent with few exceptions, continually rebuilding franchise once again wasting a Franchise QB's career


Yes, because we all aim to be the Texans, a chronic 9-10 win team, enough to take a weak division, and then an early playoff exit with no real chance for a title.

[DrSpaceman]

People bitched about Dungy as well, said his game management and time management wasn't good enough and that he was always "outcoached" (see: outcheated) by Belicheat. Don't pretend the standard here is reasonable or set by the owner, because it is clearly neither of those things when there have been many years that the team has won divisions, conferences, etc. and the owner has indicated satisfaction with his coaching staff where many fans here were completely dissatisfied with the results and wanted rid of the coaching staff. Don Shula wouldn't have met this board's standard.

Even if that's true about Dungy, 3/4 times with the coach and for the majority of the last 20 years, the fans have been right to be dissatisfied with the coaching of this team.

Most of the criticism of Dungy was not winning in the playoffs, same as with Manning.

[testcase448]

Yes, because we all aim to be the Texans, a chronic 9-10 win team, enough to take a weak division, and then an early playoff exit with no real chance for a title.


How many years in a row have we gotten to 9-10 wins?
Oh wait...

We'll be doing good to get five this year. The "bad team with a great QB" thing only works with a bullet proof QB. Luck isn't that QB

[testcase448]

Fuck the Texans. Go away, baitin'.

Don't like the Texans, but we will be looking up at them for another decade unless things change.
I keep hearing this "young o-line will jell" line. And the retread rejects on D will make a big improvement, then I watched the Cowboys beat them like rented mules.

[testcase448]

Keeping Manning was never really a viable option. His cap hit and the complete lack of talent on the Colts was never going to produce another SB. His injured neck was also a great concern. Denver got completely destroyed by Seattle in the 1st SB with Manning at the helm and they had a hell of a lot more talent than the Colts. The 2nd SB with Denver, Manning had an incredible defense, something the Colts didn't and don't have now. Manning rode his 2nd SB win because of Denver's outstanding defense. Hell, he even got benched for awhile.

So Denver built a good defense the year after Seattle destroyed them, but the Colts could not have... ?


The Texans haven't accomplished shit, how many SB wins do they have?


And the Colts have accomplished what since Manning?



The problem wasn't letting Manning go to take Luck. The problem lies with Irsay, Griggs, and Pags.

I recall on this board Pagano and Griggs were hailed as saviors


Should have built up the offensive and defensive lines instead of wasting 1st round picks on guys like Dorsett, Werner and trading a 1st for TR. Luck is pretty much the only reason the Colts have been a playoff contender.




As far as trading Luck for multiple picks, based on Griggs and Pags draft picking, I wouldn't have liked those odds.
That's a valid point, but it's hindsight

How many teams with great QBs win Super Bowls with a lousy team around them?

[Dam8610]

Even if that's true about Dungy, 3/4 times with the coach and for the majority of the last 20 years, the fans have been right to be dissatisfied with the coaching of this team.

Most of the criticism of Dungy was not winning in the playoffs, same as with Manning.

Caldwell has had success elsewhere and Pagano has 0 losing seasons, 3 playoff appearances, 2 division titles, and 52 career wins in 5 seasons, so I'm not so sure I buy your "3/4 times" argument.

[Spike]

How many teams with great QBs win Super Bowls with a lousy team around them?

How many teams with lousy QB's win Super Bowls? The hardest thing to find is a franchise QB, the rest of the team is up to management and that is where the Colts have failed.

[Brylok]

Don't like the Texans, but we will be looking up at them for another decade unless things change.
I keep hearing this "young o-line will jell" line. And the retread rejects on D will make a big improvement, then I watched the Cowboys beat them like rented mules.
The Cowboys have a chance to win the NFC. The Colts aren't in AFC contention. What part of "rebuilding" do you not understand? Are you a bot? Do we need to install a captcha filter on this forum? Click on the images that contain street signs.

[Brylok]

How many teams with lousy QB's win Super Bowls? The hardest thing to find is a franchise QB, the rest of the team is up to management and that is where the Colts have failed.
"Trent Dilfer" incoming...

[Spike]

"Trent Dilfer" incoming...

True, but you had better have an extremely dominant defense. Brad Johnson is another one.

[Brylok]

True, but you had better have an extremely dominant defense. Brad Johnson is another one.
I had totally forgotten about Johnson. Ha.

[testcase448]

How many teams with lousy QB's win Super Bowls? The hardest thing to find is a franchise QB, the rest of the team is up to management and that is where the Colts have failed.

Baltimore...

[testcase448]

The Cowboys have a chance to win the NFC. The Colts aren't in AFC contention. What part of "rebuilding" do you not understand? Are you a bot? Do we need to install a captcha filter on this forum? Click on the images that contain street signs.

I get rebuilding, don't you? Or the Colts management team for that matter.
It should have been started by trading the rights to luck.

STARTING a rebuild with a QB doesn't work. Especially withe the Colts management/ownership. All it gets you is a wasted career as we are witnessing here.

The Cowboys will likely win the NFC? They rebuilt their o-line, THEN drafted a QB. Did you see what that line did to our d? Now we are trying to rebuild our o-line and Luck has spent time on IR and is injured even now.He has been battered like Rice's wife and running for his life every game of his career.

[Spike]

Baltimore...

Joe Flacco is a weird bird. He pretty much is average Joe in the regular season, but come playoff time, he seems to thrive.

[testcase448]

Joe Flacco is a weird bird. He pretty much is average Joe in the regular season, but come playoff time, he seems to thrive.

When good players around you step it up for the playoffs, you can do that.

Manning overcame that with a handful of talent surrounding him versus a deeper team no doubt.

Luck is not Manning.

[YDFL Commish]

How many teams with lousy QB's win Super Bowls? The hardest thing to find is a franchise QB, the rest of the team is up to management and that is where the Colts have failed.

Jeff Hostetler

[VeveJones007]

When good players around you step it up for the playoffs, you can do that.

Manning overcame that with a handful of talent surrounding him versus a deeper team no doubt.

Luck is not Manning.

Flacco had one hell of a run that postseason. Saying it was players stepping up around him serves him short.

[Pez]

How many teams with lousy QB's win Super Bowls? The hardest thing to find is a franchise QB, the rest of the team is up to management and that is where the Colts have failed.

Joe Namath & Jets, Terry Bradshaw & Steelers

[Pez]

I get rebuilding, don't you? Or the Colts management team for that matter.
It should have been started by trading the rights to luck.

STARTING a rebuild with a QB doesn't work. Especially withe the Colts management/ownership. All it gets you is a wasted career as we are witnessing here.

The Cowboys will likely win the NFC? They rebuilt their o-line, THEN drafted a QB. Did you see what that line did to our d? Now we are trying to rebuild our o-line and Luck has spent time on IR and is injured even now.He has been battered like Rice's wife and running for his life every game of his career.

Hmm... No one has ever accused me of being a great football mind, but the Cowboys were pretty sold on Romo at the time they started investing in their O-Line. It's also not clear that Prescott would not still be a backup if Romo had not went down in the preseason.

Also, I think it's a stretch that the Cowboys (or any team) would pass up an opportunity like Andrew Luck because they were focusing on their offensive line. That's like electing to kick after an OT coin toss, or pags faking a punt against the Patriots.

I think others have said it in this thread, but the issue is that Grigson, Irsay and Pags didnt focus on the foundations they need to build around a talented QB in order to be successful.

I wonder how much Andrew Luck cares for Ryan Grigson, considering the indirect damage he's doing to his career. Or Pagano for his power run load of bullshit.

I guess under your logic we should shop Andrew Luck now, develop our line and then take a chance on a QB in the 2020 draft?

Also, the cowboys were one and done last year against the Packers. I'm not sure I would crown them NFC champions yet (they are who we thought they were).

[Brylok]

I get rebuilding, don't you? Or the Colts management team for that matter.
It should have been started by trading the rights to luck.

STARTING a rebuild with a QB doesn't work. Especially withe the Colts management/ownership. All it gets you is a wasted career as we are witnessing here.

The Cowboys will likely win the NFC? They rebuilt their o-line, THEN drafted a QB. Did you see what that line did to our d? Now we are trying to rebuild our o-line and Luck has spent time on IR and is injured even now.He has been battered like Rice's wife and running for his life every game of his career.
Yeah, I'm not interested in being a team in need of a franchise QB. How's that working out for Houston, Jacksonville, Buffalo, Miami, the Bears, etc? The only things being wasted here are your posts. Well, maybe Irsay...

[testcase448]

I guess under your logic we should shop Andrew Luck now, develop our line and then take a chance on a QB in the 2020 draft?

Also, the cowboys were one and done last year against the Packers. I'm not sure I would crown them NFC champions yet (they are who we thought they were).

Too late, damaged goods...

And we were none and done:cool:

[testcase448]

Yeah, I'm not interested in being a team in need of a franchise QB. How's that working out for Houston, Jacksonville, Buffalo, Miami, the Bears, etc? The only things being wasted here are your posts. Well, maybe Irsay...

Wasted on imbeciles I agree lol

[omahacolt]

I get rebuilding, don't you? Or the Colts management team for that matter.
It should have been started by trading the rights to luck.

STARTING a rebuild with a QB doesn't work. Especially withe the Colts management/ownership. All it gets you is a wasted career as we are witnessing here.

The Cowboys will likely win the NFC? They rebuilt their o-line, THEN drafted a QB. Did you see what that line did to our d? Now we are trying to rebuild our o-line and Luck has spent time on IR and is injured even now.He has been battered like Rice's wife and running for his life every game of his career.

You are a dumb person.

You never pass up on the qb of you need one

[YDFL Commish]

You are a dumb person.

You never pass up on the qb of you need one

I'm beginning to think troll.

[DrSpaceman]

Caldwell has had success elsewhere and Pagano has 0 losing seasons, 3 playoff appearances, 2 division titles, and 52 career wins in 5 seasons, so I'm not so sure I buy your "3/4 times" argument.

You honestly think Pagano and Caldwell are good coaches that will ever have huge success again in the playoffs in this league?

Lions completely collapsed down the stretch last year and all of Caldwells playoff wins as a head coach came in his first season as the Colts coach.

The same season I might add that he ruined a potential 16-0 season for the Colts, a BRILLIANT coaching move, and was outcoached in the SB.

Pagano should have been fired two seasons ago. No real colts fan can deny that he has added nothing to this teams success the last few seasons. They are continuously outcoached and unprepared, fall behind early by double digits way too often

[IndyNorm]

Caldwell has had success elsewhere and Pagano has 0 losing seasons, 3 playoff appearances, 2 division titles, and 52 career wins in 5 seasons, so I'm not so sure I buy your "3/4 times" argument.

Caldwell probably got the shaft a bit since '11 really wasn't his fault, but as others have pointed out most of his success was the '09 season with the Colts where the team was pretty much a carryover from Dungy's teams.

Also, Caldwell's baffling decisions to call timeouts at the end of games which allowed the other teams to run another play and get into FG range or better FG range were inexcusable. His timeout call at the end of the Jets game is the only play that rivals Clappy's fake punt in terms of stupidity on the Colts sidelines that I've seen.

Now on to Clappy McWoodchopper. For starters he has 43 wins not 52 since 9 of those are Arians', and his record is pure fool's gold since we play in the AFC South which with the exception of Houston in '12 was (and still should be) 6 easy wins a year.

His playoff wins are also fool's gold. KC had half of their D get hurt in the 2nd half which allowed Luck and Hilton (along with Mathis) to bail the team out as they had (big surprise) showed up completely unprepared for the game. In the '14 playoffs the Bungles were down to their #5 WR and a FB as receivers and Manning had a torn quad and couldn't throw the ball past 10 yards. Of course when we played a good and mostly healthy team the following week we were completely embarrassed.

Anyway, why most Colts fans want Clappy gone doesn't have much to do with his record and much more to do with the following:

-~75% of the time the team starts games deer in the head lights and look like they just rolled out of bed after a late night and had no idea they were supposed to be playing football that day. This clearly shows Clappy and his staff are unable to put together effective game plans and get the team ready to play.

-Way too many embarrassing blowout losses. This is more Grigs' fault but the coaching staff's inability to effective game plan certainly plays a factor in this.

-Clear lack of fundamentals on the team and little or no accountability held for players doing stupid shit on the field. For example: Chester Rogers is still fielding punts inside his own 10. Why the hell has that not been corrected yet?

[omahacolt]

Caldwell probably got the shaft a bit since '11 really wasn't his fault, but as others have pointed out most of his success was the '09 season with the Colts where the team was pretty much a carryover from Dungy's teams.

Also, Caldwell's baffling decisions to call timeouts at the end of games which allowed the other teams to run another play and get into FG range or better FG range were inexcusable. His timeout call at the end of the Jets game is the only play that rivals Clappy's fake punt in terms of stupidity on the Colts sidelines that I've seen.

Now on to Clappy McWoodchopper. For starters he has 43 wins not 52 since 9 of those are Arians', and his record is pure fool's gold since we play in the AFC South which with the exception of Houston in '12 was (and still should be) 6 easy wins a year.

His playoff wins are also fool's gold. KC had half of their D get hurt in the 2nd half which allowed Luck and Hilton (along with Mathis) to bail the team out as they had (big surprise) showed up completely unprepared for the game. In the '14 playoffs the Bungles were down to their #5 WR and a FB as receivers and Manning had a torn quad and couldn't throw the ball past 10 yards. Of course when we played a good and mostly healthy team the following week we were completely embarrassed.

Anyway, why most Colts fans want Clappy gone doesn't have much to do with his record and much more to do with the following:

-~75% of the time the team starts games deer in the head lights and look like they just rolled out of bed after a late night and had no idea they were supposed to be playing football that day. This clearly shows Clappy and his staff are unable to put together effective game plans and get the team ready to play.

-Way too many embarrassing blowout losses. This is more Grigs' fault but the coaching staff's inability to effective game plan certainly plays a factor in this.

-Clear lack of fundamentals on the team and little or no accountability held for players doing stupid shit on the field. For example: Chester Rogers is still fielding punts inside his own 10. Why the hell has that not been corrected yet?
don't bother with dam, norm. he doesn't put any responsibility on coaches. in his mind they are not responsible for anything that happens on the field.

[apballin]

Caldwell probably got the shaft a bit since '11 really wasn't his fault, but as others have pointed out most of his success was the '09 season with the Colts where the team was pretty much a carryover from Dungy's teams.

Also, Caldwell's baffling decisions to call timeouts at the end of games which allowed the other teams to run another play and get into FG range or better FG range were inexcusable. His timeout call at the end of the Jets game is the only play that rivals Clappy's fake punt in terms of stupidity on the Colts sidelines that I've seen.

Now on to Clappy McWoodchopper. For starters he has 43 wins not 52 since 9 of those are Arians', and his record is pure fool's gold since we play in the AFC South which with the exception of Houston in '12 was (and still should be) 6 easy wins a year.

His playoff wins are also fool's gold. KC had half of their D get hurt in the 2nd half which allowed Luck and Hilton (along with Mathis) to bail the team out as they had (big surprise) showed up completely unprepared for the game. In the '14 playoffs the Bungles were down to their #5 WR and a FB as receivers and Manning had a torn quad and couldn't throw the ball past 10 yards. Of course when we played a good and mostly healthy team the following week we were completely embarrassed.

Anyway, why most Colts fans want Clappy gone doesn't have much to do with his record and much more to do with the following:

-~75% of the time the team starts games deer in the head lights and look like they just rolled out of bed after a late night and had no idea they were supposed to be playing football that day. This clearly shows Clappy and his staff are unable to put together effective game plans and get the team ready to play.

-Way too many embarrassing blowout losses. This is more Grigs' fault but the coaching staff's inability to effective game plan certainly plays a factor in this.

-Clear lack of fundamentals on the team and little or no accountability held for players doing stupid shit on the field. For example: Chester Rogers is still fielding punts inside his own 10. Why the hell has that not been corrected yet?

Ok lets do this,
I do think Caldwell has become a good coach what he does with a Lions team with less talent than the Colts is impressive IMO but whatever

on to Chuck- the entire "we play in the afc south that's 6 free wins" is total BS, I don't care what division you play in those games are always tougher because of the familiarity, nobody says the same shit about New England or Seattle when both have maybe 1 tough division game each year

ok so now to the playoff record, you can give reasons why every team wins and loses in the playoffs but fuck that no excuses, that game vsKC was epic I've never seen an onslaught of points like that it was amazing, just because Charles got hurt doesn't mean they shouldn't have been able to seal that game I watched Manning lose to a Chargers backup QB and running back, and game 2 vs the Broncos they went into Denver and beat a great defensive team the Broncos won all year and went on to wina superbowl with Mannings noodle arm no fools gold there whatsoever. And yes the Pats embarrassed us like they do every team trying to come and win in New England in the playoffs, I mean theres been what 1 or 2 teams win there at all in 4 or 5 years? no shame in that

I don't want Chuck gone I believe the players want to play for him, it's clear right now the questions about Luck are a dark cloud affecting this team but no matter what he'll be back ad he'll be 100% and I'm excited tosee how it's going to play out. No coach is gonna have this team looking like playoff contenders with whats going on right now.

Lucks coming and we'll be fine

[Indiana V2]

Ok lets do this,
I do think Caldwell has become a good coach what he does with a Lions team with less talent than the Colts is impressive IMO but whatever

on to Chuck- the entire "we play in the afc south that's 6 free wins" is total BS, I don't care what division you play in those games are always tougher because of the familiarity, nobody says the same shit about New England or Seattle when both have maybe 1 tough division game each year

ok so now to the playoff record, you can give reasons why every team wins and loses in the playoffs but fuck that no excuses, that game vsKC was epic I've never seen an onslaught of points like that it was amazing, just because Charles got hurt doesn't mean they shouldn't have been able to seal that game I watched Manning lose to a Chargers backup QB and running back, and game 2 vs the Broncos they went into Denver and beat a great defensive team the Broncos won all year and went on to wina superbowl with Mannings noodle arm no fools gold there whatsoever. And yes the Pats embarrassed us like they do every team trying to come and win in New England in the playoffs, I mean theres been what 1 or 2 teams win there at all in 4 or 5 years? no shame in that

I don't want Chuck gone I believe the players want to play for him, it's clear right now the questions about Luck are a dark cloud affecting this team but no matter what he'll be back ad he'll be 100% and I'm excited tosee how it's going to play out. No coach is gonna have this team looking like playoff contenders with whats going on right now.

Lucks coming and we'll be fine

Yikes! How do you expect anyone to take you seriously?

[DrSpaceman]

Ok lets do this,
I do think Caldwell has become a good coach what he does with a Lions team with less talent than the Colts is impressive IMO but whatever

on to Chuck- the entire "we play in the afc south that's 6 free wins" is total BS, I don't care what division you play in those games are always tougher because of the familiarity, nobody says the same shit about New England or Seattle when both have maybe 1 tough division game each year

ok so now to the playoff record, you can give reasons why every team wins and loses in the playoffs but fuck that no excuses, that game vsKC was epic I've never seen an onslaught of points like that it was amazing, just because Charles got hurt doesn't mean they shouldn't have been able to seal that game I watched Manning lose to a Chargers backup QB and running back, and game 2 vs the Broncos they went into Denver and beat a great defensive team the Broncos won all year and went on to wina superbowl with Mannings noodle arm no fools gold there whatsoever. And yes the Pats embarrassed us like they do every team trying to come and win in New England in the playoffs, I mean theres been what 1 or 2 teams win there at all in 4 or 5 years? no shame in that

I don't want Chuck gone I believe the players want to play for him, it's clear right now the questions about Luck are a dark cloud affecting this team but no matter what he'll be back ad he'll be 100% and I'm excited tosee how it's going to play out. No coach is gonna have this team looking like playoff contenders with whats going on right now.

Lucks coming and we'll be fine

So another year of excuses for Pagano no matter what happens.

If you seriously don't want Chuck gone, I question what you are watching or your football knowledge. Or both.

[Dam8610]

-Way too many embarrassing blowout losses. This is more Grigs' fault...

Holy shit! Someone admitted it! We're making progress!

[omahacolt]

Holy shit! Someone admitted it! We're making progress!

It's wrong and borderline retarded

[Coltsalr]

Holy shit! Someone admitted it! We're making progress!

And it still doesn't make Pagano completely blame-free, as you insist.

[apballin]

So another year of excuses for Pagano no matter what happens.

If you seriously don't want Chuck gone, I question what you are watching or your football knowledge. Or both.

No reason to fire him right now, everybody is just panicking because of Luck's situation

His record speaks for itself, and he hasn't even had Luck in there for every game

Chuck can get us there you all we'll see

[omahacolt]

No reason to fire him right now, everybody is just panicking because of Luck's situation

His record speaks for itself, and he hasn't even had Luck in there for every game

Chuck can get us there you all we'll see

You are dumb

[Hoopsdoc]

No reason to fire him right now, everybody is just panicking because of Luck's situation

His record speaks for itself, and he hasn't even had Luck in there for every game

Chuck can get us there you all we'll see

These first 3 preseason games have been classic Clappy. 2 games of looking like complete and total shit followed by 1 game where they look a little better. Like they're actually prepared for once.

A good coach has his team ready every week. Chucks never been able to pull that off. You never see the Cheatriots unprepared or sloppy, because Belichick is a good coach.

We will never go anywhere with Chuck in charge.

[Dam8610]

And it still doesn't make Pagano completely blame-free, as you insist.

That was never a thing I even posited, let alone insisted. It's a nice start to see that people are blaming talent related outcomes on talent rather than coaching, though.

[Dam8610]

I'm wrong and borderline retarded

Small adjustments can make all the difference. These are the types of things coaching can do. Things coaching cannot do include make up for huge talent gaps.

[omahacolt]

Small adjustments can make all the difference. These are the types of things coaching can do. Things coaching cannot do include make up for huge talent gaps.

what coaching can do is put that rookie qb ahead of morris on the depth chart. like a fucking moron. just like pagano would do and did.

you and apballin are the only ones that think pagano is good. are you comfortable with that company? you probably are because you are stupid

[Racehorse]

That was never a thing I even posited, let alone insisted. It's a nice start to see that people are blaming talent related outcomes on talent rather than coaching, though.

Revisionist history on your part

[Hoopsdoc]

Small adjustments can make all the difference. These are the types of things coaching can do. Things coaching cannot do include make up for huge talent gaps.

You are goring your own ox here. When small adjustments are made, they can play with anyone, as evidenced by yesterday's game.

Problem is, these adjustments are rarely made, which is why they look like shit most of the time. That's awful coaching.

If it were purely a talent issue, they'd be like Cleveland and be awful every week.

[apballin]

These first 3 preseason games have been classic Clappy. 2 games of looking like complete and total shit followed by 1 game where they look a little better. Like they're actually prepared for once.

A good coach has his team ready every week. Chucks never been able to pull that off. You never see the Cheatriots unprepared or sloppy, because Belichick is a good coach.

We will never go anywhere with Chuck in charge.

Why does everyone here compare coaches to the Patriots? Because other than the Patriots you just stated what every team in the NFL does it is a league of ups and downs, turnovers, and inches.

I'd say they were consistently good the 2nd half of the season other than Luck's stupid turnovers

[Coltsalr]

That was never a thing I even posited, let alone insisted. It's a nice start to see that people are blaming talent related outcomes on talent rather than coaching, though.

Talent is ultimately the biggest cause (and I've always agreed with that and said that this team sucked more because of a shit GM as opposed to a shit coach), but Pagano still has his share in the fact that he can't identify talent either himself (beat the desk for TJ Green, lulz) and can't develop talent when Grigson happened to stumble on it (Mario Addison, Lawrence Guy, etc).

Pagano sucks, as you refuse to admit.

[Dam8610]

You are goring your own ox here. When small adjustments are made, they can play with anyone, as evidenced by yesterday's game.

Problem is, these adjustments are rarely made, which is why they look like shit most of the time. That's awful coaching.

If it were purely a talent issue, they'd be like Cleveland and be awful every week.

No, Cleveland is that bad because they don't have a QB. The Colts were Cleveland with a QB under Grigson. Hopefully Ballard will actually provide the requisite talent for a good defense. Things look good on that front so far.

[Dam8610]

Talent is ultimately the biggest cause (and I've always agreed with that and said that this team sucked more because of a shit GM as opposed to a shit coach), but Pagano still has his share in the fact that he can't identify talent either himself (beat the desk for TJ Green, lulz) and can't develop talent when Grigson happened to stumble on it (Mario Addison, Lawrence Guy, etc).

Pagano sucks, as you refuse to admit.

Wow. Pagano was the one who made the decision to cut Guy when he was a prominent rotational backup? Also, Mario Addison was a Polian find who got signed off the practice squad. Not to mention pro bowlers Vontae Davis, Mike Adams, and Robert Mathis, turning Erik Walden into a passable player and Jerrell Freeman into a quality ILB (who was inexplicably let go for peanuts), turning a UDFA into a 6th round pick (because Grigson refused to keep him on the team), the list goes on. Talent development has not been the problem, it's been talent acquisition. That doesn't hold water as an argument against Pagano, he's developed and improved the talent he was given, Grigson was just so bad at identifying talent.

[Dam8610]

what coaching can do is put that rookie qb ahead of morris on the depth chart. like a fucking moron. just like pagano would do and did.

you and apballin are the only ones that think pagano is good. are you comfortable with that company? you probably are because you are stupid

At this point I want Pagano to succeed because I want the Colts to succeed. But if he does end up fired, I'll be glad because everyone can move on to bitching about the next coach (which I'm sure will take no more than 5 games) while Pagano will, like Caldwell, take a coordinator role somewhere and eventually get offered a head job again and find success elsewhere.

[Racehorse]

Are we really going to do this again all year this year? Really???

[omahacolt]

Are we really going to do this again all year this year? Really???

Probably.


Dam will continue to excuse pagano all year and people will continue to call him an idiot

[Maniac]

Talent development has not been the problem, it's been talent acquisition.

Clearly a talent acquisition problem:

http://img.bleacherreport.net/img/images/photos/003/535/625/a46d3e79d8088662e5afbfec3dcde8e4_crop_exact.jpg?w= 1200&h=1200&q=75

Another talent acquisition problem:

https://www.stampedeblue.com/2016/9/11/12883928/chuck-pagano-explains-late-timeout-that-may-have-cost-colts

[apballin]

Clearly a talent acquisition problem:

http://img.bleacherreport.net/img/images/photos/003/535/625/a46d3e79d8088662e5afbfec3dcde8e4_crop_exact.jpg?w= 1200&h=1200&q=75

Another talent acquisition problem:

https://www.stampedeblue.com/2016/9/11/12883928/chuck-pagano-explains-late-timeout-that-may-have-cost-colts

Exactly FUCK the pats, beat those motherfuckers at all costs

just leave Luck in and go for it next time Chuck

[Indiana V2]

Exactly FUCK the pats, beat those motherfuckers at all costs

just leave Luck in and go for it next time Chuck

Wow for once I agree with apballin.

[Dam8610]

Clearly a talent acquisition problem:

http://img.bleacherreport.net/img/images/photos/003/535/625/a46d3e79d8088662e5afbfec3dcde8e4_crop_exact.jpg?w= 1200&h=1200&q=75

If there is literally one thing you can point to in 5 years, you don't have an argument.

Another talent acquisition problem:

https://www.stampedeblue.com/2016/9/11/12883928/chuck-pagano-explains-late-timeout-that-may-have-cost-colts

http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2016091111/2016/REG1/lions@colts#menu=drivechart&tab=analyze&analyze=playbyplay

1-10-DET 12
(1:23) (Shotgun) 12-A.Luck pass short left to 13-T.Hilton to DET 12 for no gain (23-D.Slay).
Timeout #2 by IND at 01:15.
2-10-DET 12
(1:14) (Shotgun) 12-A.Luck pass short right to 10-D.Moncrief to DET 6 for 6 yards (24-N.Lawson). The Replay Official reviewed the runner was in bounds ruling, and the play was Upheld. The ruling on the field stands.
3-4-DET 6
(:43) (Shotgun) 12-A.Luck pass short middle to 84-J.Doyle for 6 yards, TOUCHDOWN.

The ball was snapped at 1:14 prior to the Moncrief play. Assuming an averageplay length of 5 seconds, the play ended at 1:09. A full 40 second runoff would've seen a snap at :29 remaining, and because the play took 6 seconds, a TD with :23 remaining. The Lions got an extra 14 seconds on that play. Did it make a difference?


1-10-DET 25
(:37) (Shotgun) 9-M.Stafford pass short middle to 25-T.Riddick to DET 44 for 19 yards (55-Si.Moore).
Timeout #1 by DET at 00:28.
1-10-DET 44
(:28) (Shotgun) 9-M.Stafford pass short left to 85-E.Ebron to IND 47 for 9 yards (55-Si.Moore).
Timeout #2 by DET at 00:21.
2-1-IND 47
(:21) (Shotgun) 9-M.Stafford pass short left to 11-M.Jones to IND 25 for 22 yards (31-A.Cromartie).
Timeout #3 by DET at 00:12.
1-10-IND 25
(:12) (Shotgun) 9-M.Stafford pass incomplete short left.
2-10-IND 25
(:08) 5-M.Prater 43 yard field goal is GOOD, Center-48-D.Muhlbach, Holder-6-S.Martin.

The bolded portion is the portion that doesn't happen with the additional 14 second runoff. So, it turns out that the referenced timeout actually had zero bearing on the outcome of the game.

[DrSpaceman]

If there is literally one thing you can point to in 5 years, you don't have an argument.



http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2016091111/2016/REG1/lions@colts#menu=drivechart&tab=analyze&analyze=playbyplay



The ball was snapped at 1:14 prior to the Moncrief play. Assuming an averageplay length of 5 seconds, the play ended at 1:09. A full 40 second runoff would've seen a snap at :29 remaining, and because the play took 6 seconds, a TD with :23 remaining. The Lions got an extra 14 seconds on that play. Did it make a difference?




The bolded portion is the portion that doesn't happen with the additional 14 second runoff. So, it turns out that the referenced timeout actually had zero bearing on the outcome of the game.

Are you being sarcastic?

They called a time out with 12 seconds. take off 14 seconds, game is over, no FG. Colts win.

AM I missing something here? It seems you just proved it lost the game for the Colts.

[Racehorse]

Are you being sarcastic?

They called a time out with 12 seconds. take off 14 seconds, game is over, no FG. Colts win.

AM I missing something here? It seems you just proved it lost the game for the Colts.

The guy is clearly out of his mind. If you are not sure if I am referring to dam or Pagano, the answer is YES!

[Dam8610]

Are you being sarcastic?

They called a time out with 12 seconds. take off 14 seconds, game is over, no FG. Colts win.

AM I missing something here? It seems you just proved it lost the game for the Colts.

Yes, you're clearly missing something. There wouldn't have been 12 seconds to call a timeout if there was an additional 14 second runoff on the Luck TD. His (incorrect) argument was that the Pagano timeout at 1:15 cost the Colts the game. Clearly, empirically, not running down the clock on the Luck to Doyle TD cost the Colts the game, not the timeout. Thanks for agreeing with me, albeit in a bizarre manner.

[DrSpaceman]

Yes, you're clearly missing something. There wouldn't have been 12 seconds to call a timeout if there was an additional 14 second runoff on the Luck TD. His (incorrect) argument was that the Pagano timeout at 1:15 cost the Colts the game. Clearly, empirically, not running down the clock on the Luck to Doyle TD cost the Colts the game, not the timeout. Thanks for agreeing with me, albeit in a bizarre manner.

Well now that you explain what you mean, that is even more convoluted and wrong.

So a timeout called by Pagano that would have run off an extra THIRTY SECOND OR MORE DOES NOT MATTER, but an extra 14 seconds that was not run off by Luck DOES MATTER?

No, you are still wrong.

[Dam8610]

Well now that you explain what you mean, that is even more convoluted and wrong.

So a timeout called by Pagano that would have run off an extra THIRTY SECOND OR MORE DOES NOT MATTER, but an extra 14 seconds that was not run off by Luck DOES MATTER?

No, you are still wrong.

12 seconds was all that was needed. It doesn't matter when it occurred. You just stated that 14 seconds would've been enough, but now that you see it goes against the argument that fits your narrative, you change your tune. The timeout no more cost the team the game than the failure to completely run off the play clock on the TD play, by your own admission.

[DrSpaceman]

12 seconds was all that was needed. It doesn't matter when it occurred. You just stated that 14 seconds would've been enough, but now that you see it goes against the argument that fits your narrative, you change your tune. The timeout no more cost the team the game than the failure to completely run off the play clock on the TD play, by your own admission.

Actually it cost them at least 16-26 seconds more than the play you mentioned. Lucks play it would have been tight at the end, in a different situation they could have shaved off the two or three extra seconds needed. If Pagano doesn't call the time out, its not even close to them having enough time. Game is over once they score no matter what Luck does.

And the head coach is the primary person in charge of clock management at the end of the game.

[smitty46953]

12 seconds was all that was needed. It doesn't matter when it occurred. You just stated that 14 seconds would've been enough, but now that you see it goes against the argument that fits your narrative, you change your tune. The timeout no more cost the team the game than the failure to completely run off the play clock on the TD play, by your own admission.

Dam, dam you just keep getting worse. Once upon a time you offered some interesting content. Now you just look for arguments with every post. Life that bad ? :cool:

[Dam8610]

Dam, dam you just keep getting worse. Once upon a time you offered some interesting content. Now you just look for arguments with every post. Life that bad ? :cool:

Life is pretty good, actually. I'm not looking for arguments, but I'm stubborn and no one here seems to believe in agree to disagree, so it happens. We'll see what happens this season. I'm hopeful for the best, but things don't look too great right now with two of the team's best players recovering from injuries. If the "fire Pagano" crowd gets their way, I doubt it will take long for them to turn on the next guy.

[omahacolt]

Life is pretty good, actually. I'm not looking for arguments, but I'm stubborn and no one here seems to believe in agree to disagree, so it happens. We'll see what happens this season. I'm hopeful for the best, but things don't look too great right now with two of the team's best players recovering from injuries. If the "fire Pagano" crowd gets their way, I doubt it will take long for them to turn on the next guy.

There is no reason to be pro pagano. Unless you are a fucking moron that can't admit he is wrong

[apballin]

There is no reason to be pro pagano. Unless you are a fucking moron that can't admit he is wrong

other than the fact he doesn't have a losing record and I for one am not sold on a big name guy like Gruden or whatever other college coach or current NFL analyst he would call up

[omahacolt]

other than the fact he doesn't have a losing record and I for one am not sold on a big name guy like Gruden or whatever other college coach or current NFL analyst he would call up

You are clearly a moron. We have read your posts the last couple years

[nate505]

other than the fact he doesn't have a losing record and I for one am not sold on a big name guy like Gruden or whatever other college coach or current NFL analyst he would call up

His winning record is 100% dependent on the fact the Colts played in such a dog crap division for the majority of his career.

Pags is 19-6 against the AFC South. His total coaching record in the regular season is 39-28. Take out the crappy AFC South and his record is 20-22. Oh, and the South is getting better and surprise surprise, his record over the last 2 years against them has been 7-5, which is still winning but a lot closer to reality.

[apballin]

His winning record is 100% dependent on the fact the Colts played in such a dog crap division for the majority of his career.

Pags is 19-6 against the AFC South. His total coaching record in the regular season is 39-28. Take out the crappy AFC South and his record is 20-22. Oh, and the South is getting better and surprise surprise, his record over the last 2 years against them has been 7-5, which is still winning but a lot closer to reality.

And how many games has Luck missed the last 2 years?

I'd factor that in myself

[IndyNorm]

Holy shit! Someone admitted it! We're making progress!

First off I've never said that Grigs didn't suck; I've just always said Clappy is just as bad or worse due to everything I outlined in my post which you've completely blocked out. Must hurt to get some realism on your hero.