It was Jim calling the shot

[JAFF]

https://www.indystar.com/story/sports/nfl/colts/2022/03/29/colts-why-owner-jim-irsay-changed-quarterbacks-carson-wentz/7124507001/

Colts owner Jim Irsay on Carson Wentz: 'We had to move away. ... It was very obvious.'
Joel A. Erickson
Indianapolis Star
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WEST PALM BEACH, Fla. — When Indianapolis got past the emotion of the end of the season and evaluated the ugly start to the season, the missed opportunities against Tennessee and ultimately the ugly collapse in the final two games, the answer became very clear to Jim Irsay.

The Colts had to make a change at quarterback.

Carson Wentz was not the answer, no matter if he’d cost the Colts a first- and third-round pick, no matter that he’d only been in Indianapolis a single season.

“I think the worst thing you can do is have a mistake and try to keep living with it going forward,” Irsay said. “For us, it was something we had to move away from as a franchise. It was very obvious.”


Three weeks after Indianapolis traded Wentz to Washington and more than a week after trading for Falcons legend Matt Ryan, Irsay, general manager Chris Ballard and head coach Frank Reich have all been careful this week to say that Wentz is not the scapegoat for the team’s failures in 2021.

But Irsay also laid out a list of reasons that the Colts had to make another change at the game’s most important position, even if Wentz’s numbers on the surface — 27 touchdowns, seven interceptions, 94.7 rating — didn’t seem to warrant the drastic step of getting rid of Wentz without a clear plan in place to replace him.

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Owner of the Indianapolis Colts, Jim Irsay, holds a press conference at the Indiana Farm Bureau Football Center, Indianapolis, Sunday, Feb. 23, 2020.
The way the season ended, a season-worst 15-point loss to a coachless Jacksonville team headed for the No. 1 pick, still gnaws at Irsay, at Ballard, at Reich.

That night, Irsay called Ballard and Reich into his office for a long meeting, a meeting Ballard later called an “ass-chewing.”

“No disrespect to Jacksonville, but I mean, they’re the worst team in the league. You play well and hard for the first quarter or so, and they’re looking to go to their locker room and clean it out. I’ve never seen anything like that in my life,” Irsay said. “You say, 'My God, there’s something wrong here.' It needs to be corrected. I think that we feel like we did.”

The wheels had started to come off the week before.

Fresh off of big wins over New England and Arizona, the Colts coughed up a lead against the Raiders that would have sent them into the playoffs, but that loss didn’t put the nail in the Indianapolis coffin.


“Your guy’s gotta pick you up and carry you through Jacksonville,” Irsay said. "He has to do it. Not an option. Has to. No excuses, no explanations.”

The more Irsay thought about the loss, the more he saw the Jacksonville failure as the culmination of problems that he’d seen throughout the season, problems that came to light through talking to some of the most important members of the Colts’ roster.


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“In having conversations with trusted veterans on the team, so to speak, when you speak to them in confidence, oftentimes they share really, what’s happening,” Irsay said. “What I found out was very concerning.”

There were leadership questions with Wentz.


Irsay, who has spent his entire life in and around the NFL, is a firm believer that the league is right to place enormous importance on the quarterback position.

“You can argue quarterbacks affect your franchise competitively somewhere between 35 to 45% as individuals, almost,” Irsay said. “They have a profound effect.”

From the conversations Irsay had with the team’s veterans and the way the season ended, the team’s owner concluded there was a disconnect with Wentz at the helm.

“You search for the right chemistry with any team,” Irsay said. “In football, it’s as important as any sport that there is. If that chemistry is off, if it isn’t there, it can be extremely detrimental and lower performance to a degree that is stunning and shocking.”

The way Wentz played also left cause for concern.

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Reunited with Reich, Wentz was able to cut down on the interceptions and sacks that had blown up his spot as the franchise quarterback in Philadelphia, but he often failed to play within the offense, preferring instead to buy time and search for the big play.

Reich’s offense is designed to scheme guys open and give them room to run.


Too often, Wentz missed open receivers, failed to operate within the timing of the offense and held onto the ball too long, trying to make the big play.

“You can’t always persuade people to do things differently if they don’t want to do them differently,” Irsay said. “You’re always trying to look at, in all areas of your team, where the coaches can come in and enhance and lift up a situation and make things better, but in the end, players are out there playing the game, and they’re going to play their game.”

Irsay concluded the Colts needed to make a change.

And although there might not have been total agreement right away, after discussing the move, the three men came to a consensus.

“That was a good debate, that went back and forth,” Ballard said. “Sometimes you hang on just because you made a move, and you don’t want the world to see you in a negative view. But at the end of the day, I’m a steward for the organization, that’s the way I look at it, and we’ve got to always do the right thing, no matter how it might make me look.”

The Colts made the decision to move on from Wentz without a clear replacement, a decision that underscores their commitment to the evaluation of the quarterback.

“You play that out, where we don’t want to have seller’s remorse,” Reich said. “I think we had already determined that wasn’t going to happen.”


The price Ballard was able to extract from the Commanders in exchange for Wentz ensured there was no remorse.

Indianapolis moved up five spots in the second round, picked up an extra third-round pick this April and a conditional third-rounder that can turn into a second-rounder next season if Wentz plays 70% of the snaps in Washington.

“I think it was really quite remarkable and a great tribute to Chris, to generate strong trade interest and get the deal done with Washington,” Irsay said. “I don’t lose the fact that it was a pretty big blessing from the football gods, where we were and where we could be if things don’t materialize to that level. You end up cutting Carson, and we’d get nothing.”

Irsay, Reich and Ballard refused to bury Wentz this week in West Palm Beach.

All three have said he might be able to reach the ceiling in Washington that he failed to reach in Indianapolis.

“For us, the fit just wasn’t right,” Irsay said. “I don’t know why. A lot of times you don’t know why, but you know it isn’t, and it was important for us to move in a different direction.”

Ultimately, the Colts decision to move on from Wentz paid off in the trade for Ryan, a proven commodity Reich praised this week for elite leadership, accuracy, remarkable consistency and a history of carrying teams in critical moments.

A lot of the traits Wentz wasn’t able to provide last season.

“Knowing you have that guy on Sunday, that no matter what, he’s going to have a chance to win, he’s gonna execute, that bleeds through to everybody,” Ballard said.


From the sounds of Irsay’s comments, the Colts ultimately decided Wentz wasn’t that kind of guy.

[ChoppedWood]

Weren't willing to bury him this week in West Palm. I think that is a literal statement only because figuratively, that dude is under the dirt! DAMN THEY TRASHED HIM AND CALLED THE COMMANDERS IDIOTS!

WOW!

[Lov2fish]

There was never a doubt in my mind Irsay called the shot on getting rid of Wentz. His post game meltdown was the writing on the wall. Seeing Carson interact on the sidelines you could see the disconnect with players. You kinda knew it was a short lived marriage

[apballin]

I’m guessing Big Q had a huge voice in this

Could see and hear the frustration in the Tampa Bay game begging for a straight run call

Reichs love for Wentz clouded his judgment on game day

[ChoppedWood]

I’m guessing Big Q had a huge voice in this

Could see and hear the frustration in the Tampa Bay game begging for a straight run call

Reichs love for Wentz clouded his judgment on game day

It's sounding more and more and more and more like pretty much 5/6 times an RPO was called he chose the pass. That's ass. That's also a terrible reflection on the coaches inability / unwillingness to force change- and that's not a good long term prognosis. Frank should be held just as culpable for the Wentz fiasco.

[Oldcolt]

I disagree that Wentz was a fiasco. At the time the decision was made the argument that Frank could turn him around was a reasonable argument. It was never 100% We had nobody on the team other than Wentz (QBs) so it made sense to me to keep trying to get thru to him until the end. Obviously it didn't work out. The thing that Irsay said that stuck out to me was “I don’t lose the fact that it was a pretty big blessing from the football gods, where we were and where we could be if things don’t materialize to that level. You end up cutting Carson, and we’d get nothing.” That last line. I have to give it to Irsay, he saw it and called it in the most clear way. Wentz was gone, period. If we held on to him after we knew for a fact he was shit it would have been a fiasco. Irsay kept it from becoming one and now we have a QB who has the most important thing that a QB can have, accuracy/timing. He is a much better owner than I have been giving him credit for. This is going to work out fine for Irsay and for us.

[CletusPyle]

The only thing about this that really bothers me...if Washington doesn't step up these three look like the biggest fools in the NFL. The way they trashed Wentz I am surprised any team was willing to take a chance on him again. It worked out great, and I am happy about that, but I refuse to give any of these three too much credit, they screwed up big time and simply got away with it!

[rm1369]

The only thing about this that really bothers me...if Washington doesn't step up these three look like the biggest fools in the NFL. The way they trashed Wentz I am surprised any team was willing to take a chance on him again. It worked out great, and I am happy about that, but I refuse to give any of these three too much credit, they screwed up big time and simply got away with it!

You aren’t going to find a team that doesn’t make mistakes on personnel decisions. Especially at QB where there simply aren’t enough to go around and the costs to acquire one (through any scenario) are highly inflated. Wentz wasn’t my desired QB target but he was a reasonable acquisition with upside. And for all the Reich blaming, he did milk more out of Wentz than the Eagles did. Just not enough.

I think media statements are largely overblown when it comes to front offices (not players opinions). You can’t trade Wentz without making it known he isn’t the solution. You don’t trade for a QB and then be willing to trade him the next off season (after missing the playoffs in that fashion) without it being well know in league circles he didn’t fulfill expectations. Irsay’s comments affected the fans (and maybe Wentz), but I doubt it affected Washington much at all.

I can find some fault with all three for different things, but the way the QB position has played out makes me thankful that the team has the owner, GM, and coach it does. It could possibly be slightly better, but god damn it could easily be a whole lot worse.

[CletusPyle]

You aren’t going to find a team that doesn’t make mistakes on personnel decisions. Especially at QB where there simply aren’t enough to go around and the costs to acquire one (through any scenario) are highly inflated. Wentz wasn’t my desired QB target but he was a reasonable acquisition with upside. And for all the Reich blaming, he did milk more out of Wentz than the Eagles did. Just not enough.

I think media statements are largely overblown when it comes to front offices (not players opinions). You can’t trade Wentz without making it known he isn’t the solution. You don’t trade for a QB and then be willing to trade him the next off season (after missing the playoffs in that fashion) without it being well know in league circles he didn’t fulfill expectations. Irsay’s comments affected the fans (and maybe Wentz), but I doubt it affected Washington much at all.

I can find some fault with all three for different things, but the way the QB position has played out makes me thankful that the team has the owner, GM, and coach it does. It could possibly be slightly better, but god damn it could easily be a whole lot worse.

You make valid points, I just have a problem with the "Ballard is a genius" crowd...I'm not saying he is inept, just saying that in this case, in my opinion, he was lucky as hell that Washington bailed him out. I doubt the Colts could have gotten Matt Ryan otherwise and I'm not sure he and Reich could have survived a losing season in 2022. Irsay really wants to win, I love that about him....for me, the jury is still out on Reich as a head coach, but as a person he seems to be one of the good guys!

[MeSayDayo]

You make valid points, I just have a problem with the "Ballard is a genius" crowd...I'm not saying he is inept, just saying that in this case, in my opinion, he was lucky as hell that Washington bailed him out. I doubt the Colts could have gotten Matt Ryan otherwise and I'm not sure he and Reich could have survived a losing season in 2022. Irsay really wants to win, I love that about him....for me, the jury is still out on Reich as a head coach, but as a person he seems to be one of the good guys!

I agree. But in the NFL, any GM has to get a little lucky to bring a Lombardi to their franchise. You either have to shit the bed enough to land a Manning, Luck or Burrow- and the difference between the worst team in the league every year and 3rd or 4th worst team in the league is very minimal.
The other option, which also requires a perfect storm, is landing a savvy veteran whose team is ready to rebuild ala Manning, Brady, Ryan, Rivers, Wilson, etc. Your team has to have the roster AND cap room to bring in a guy like this or it isn't worth the effort. In our case, we may be close to having both so making the move for Ryan made sense. I also agree that if we didn't, Ballard and Reich's seat might both be very warm next offseason.

Of all the top guys, I think Reich's seat is unquestionably the warmest and if he doesn't have a good season- he's gone. I like him, I think he motivates decently- but also has shown BIG flags in this regard and how our team showed up to the most important 2 games of the season last year.
Reich coached some great games but for the most part had all of us scratching our head about personnel utilization and gameflow/aggression decisions. If he wants to cool his seat, he should have someone else calling his plays so he can blame them if it doesn't go well.
Most importantly, Reich became the poster boy for the Wentz' debacle. This alone was enough to make his seat hot (how could Reich's love for Jesus completely overshadow the red flags regarding Wentz' leadership inability to be coached?)
Reich and Ryan will have a good season together and I think that will settle this narrative down plenty anyway.

Ultimately, I think Ballard has done so admirably with his damage control job this offseason, he is more than safe in his role. At least straight through the swing at a new young franchise QB- and if he fails, I suppose all bets are off- but that won't be until around 5 years down the road.

[Oldcolt]

I am going to call bullshit on Ballard being lucky. If many people here had had their way we would have signed someone immediately and not be there when Ryan came available. He signed Ryan and was able to do it because he continues to have a philosophy and doesn't move away from it even when things look hopeless. It isn't being a genius, but it is knowing who you are and what you believe in. Nobody is on any hot seat on this team, nor should they be. The team is headed in the right direction and will be a beast next year. Not because we will score a million points but because this will be a TEAM. Great on defense, good on offense and special teams. And it wont be a matter of luck that we are. It will be the organizational belief in a philosophy.

[Brylok]

Good. Fine. Wentz is gone and Ryan is here. What's done is done. Let's move on and get some more pieces in. Need WR, TE, CB, and S help.

[Chromeburn]

I’m guessing Big Q had a huge voice in this

Could see and hear the frustration in the Tampa Bay game begging for a straight run call

Reichs love for Wentz clouded his judgment on game day

Ballard said something I thought was interesting. He said it would be good for Wentz to get away from familiarity. Or something along those lines. It Hey Siri’sreminded me of a kid who goes to work for dad but dad is too lenient and can only see his son. I wonder if that was the case here. Time for Wentz to go work in the real world, he won’t be coddled in DC. Will be interesting to see what happens there.

Also, the beat writers said a lot of people in the building were happy to see him go. Irsay may have made the call, but only after talking to a ton of people in the organization. He doesn’t make impulsive moves like Cowherd implied. Look at the process he went through to hire Ballard. He didn’t want to repeat his Grigson mistake. He fucking talked to everyone. To me, Wentz is a leadership vacuum. He got insecurity issues and I think it makes him aloof. That’s my read on the situation. Not even getting into his performance.

[CletusPyle]

I am going to call bullshit on Ballard being lucky. If many people here had had their way we would have signed someone immediately and not be there when Ryan came available. He signed Ryan and was able to do it because he continues to have a philosophy and doesn't move away from it even when things look hopeless. It isn't being a genius, but it is knowing who you are and what you believe in. Nobody is on any hot seat on this team, nor should they be. The team is headed in the right direction and will be a beast next year. Not because we will score a million points but because this will be a TEAM. Great on defense, good on offense and special teams. And it wont be a matter of luck that we are. It will be the organizational belief in a philosophy.

I didn't say he was lucky to get Ryan, I said he was lucky that Washington provided him the opportunity to get Ryan....big difference! I will give him credit for what he has done with the gift from the Commanders.

[rcubed]

Also, the beat writers said a lot of people in the building were happy to see him go. Irsay may have made the call, but only after talking to a ton of people in the organization. He doesn’t make impulsive moves like Cowherd implied. Look at the process he went through to hire Ballard. He didn’t want to repeat his Grigson mistake. He fucking talked to everyone. To me, Wentz is a leadership vacuum. He got insecurity issues and I think it makes him aloof. That’s my read on the situation. Not even getting into his performance.

agree. I think Irsay acted very well during this situation. it was reported that he had his reservations and had to be sold on the trade for wentz, but went along with his two top guys. He ultimately didnt like the product but still took the time to meet with team leaders (players) to verify his point of view.

I think that reich was blinded/hopeful with his man-crush on wentz. I think ballard saw that it wasnt working but may have been hesitant due to the capital he gave up to get wentz. I think irsay said its a sunk cost and to fix it, but get it right this time. so yes, it was ultimately irsays call but looks like he had a sound process and wasnt being impulsive.

[rcubed]

I am going to call bullshit on Ballard being lucky. If many people here had had their way we would have signed someone immediately and not be there when Ryan came available. He signed Ryan and was able to do it because he continues to have a philosophy and doesn't move away from it even when things look hopeless. It isn't being a genius, but it is knowing who you are and what you believe in. Nobody is on any hot seat on this team, nor should they be. The team is headed in the right direction and will be a beast next year. Not because we will score a million points but because this will be a TEAM. Great on defense, good on offense and special teams. And it wont be a matter of luck that we are. It will be the organizational belief in a philosophy.

I mostly agree. Ballard has his philosophy/process and sticks to it. But as in a lot of things in life, luck plays into it. If ATL doesnt inquire about watson, maybe ryan doesnt come available and we end up with jimmy g's bum shoulder, or baker, or who knows. Ryan fell into ballard's lap but as you said, his lap was open because he waited, bit of both I would say.

[ChaosTheory]

Irsay may have made the call, but only after talking to a ton of people in the organization. He doesn’t make impulsive moves like Cowherd implied. Look at the process he went through to hire Ballard. He didn’t want to repeat his Grigson mistake. He fucking talked to everyone. To me, Wentz is a leadership vacuum. He got insecurity issues and I think it makes him aloof. That’s my read on the situation. Not even getting into his performance.

I agree about Irsay. I think it's trendy to make him out to be the rogue, unfiltered, reckless owner. I also agree with Wentz being aloof. I don't know about him being insecure and whatever... could be. But some people are (some combination of) laid back, less passionate, introverted, whatever. Qualities that don't lend themselves to being a top NFL QB.

I want our QB to have some fire and assertiveness...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=odJL9FSla5Y


I didn't say he was lucky to get Ryan, I said he was lucky that Washington provided him the opportunity to get Ryan....big difference! I will give him credit for what he has done with the gift from the Commanders.

If anything, I'd kind of see that opposite. Matt Ryan wasn't on the table until a few days before he signed with us. That part was lucky. But having patience not to settle for a QB early and go out and spend all your fucking money and build a team and situation that would be appealing for him to join... I can't call that luck.

Same with Washington. I suppose you could say we were lucky that somebody needed a QB. But selling Wentz for a 2nd and a 3rd and his contract... Washington didn't come to the table with that price.

[Chromeburn]

agree. I think Irsay acted very well during this situation. it was reported that he had his reservations and had to be sold on the trade for wentz, but went along with his two top guys. He ultimately didnt like the product but still took the time to meet with team leaders (players) to verify his point of view.

I think that reich was blinded/hopeful with his man-crush on wentz. I think ballard saw that it wasnt working but may have been hesitant due to the capital he gave up to get wentz. I think irsay said its a sunk cost and to fix it, but get it right this time. so yes, it was ultimately irsays call but looks like he had a sound process and wasnt being impulsive.

I think Ballard listens to his coaches and tries to give them what they want personnel-wise. Why we traded for Yannick but didn't try to sign him a season ago. After this season I think Ballard aligned with Irsay, Reich wanted to try another season but relented. Eventually apologizing to Irsay after reviewing the season and what happened.

I don't agree with everything Ballard does, but he sure isn't shy about moving on from a mistake. Grigson would have held the guy for 3 more years.

[Chromeburn]

I am going to call bullshit on Ballard being lucky. If many people here had had their way we would have signed someone immediately and not be there when Ryan came available. He signed Ryan and was able to do it because he continues to have a philosophy and doesn't move away from it even when things look hopeless. It isn't being a genius, but it is knowing who you are and what you believe in. Nobody is on any hot seat on this team, nor should they be. The team is headed in the right direction and will be a beast next year. Not because we will score a million points but because this will be a TEAM. Great on defense, good on offense and special teams. And it wont be a matter of luck that we are. It will be the organizational belief in a philosophy.

League has been a turnstile of QB movement lately. Wentz became available last year and you could say that was lucky since he has franchise QB potential (but maybe too broken now). But every year QB's have been moving. I wouldn't be surprised to see Kyler Murray available next year, maybe Lamar. Its not like it used to be, when a franchise QB stays with his team forever.

[CletusPyle]

If anything, I'd kind of see that opposite. Matt Ryan wasn't on the table until a few days before he signed with us. That part was lucky. But having patience not to settle for a QB early and go out and spend all your fucking money and build a team and situation that would be appealing for him to join... I can't call that luck.

Same with Washington. I suppose you could say we were lucky that somebody needed a QB. But selling Wentz for a 2nd and a 3rd and his contract... Washington didn't come to the table with that price.

The timing was lucky on Ryan, but he had other options and was willing to wait and not act impulsively, so I give him credit. Washington wanting Wentz was luckier than hell, I see no indication that other teams were interested and Washington was not the only team that NEEDED a QB. Maybe he got more for Wentz than other GMs could have, I don't know if that is true or not, but having someone willing to take Wentz off our hands after we totally shit the bed when we acquired him was pure luck in my opinion...but what does it really matter, I like how it worked out, I'm just not in awe of Ballard because of it.

[Chromeburn]

The timing was lucky on Ryan, but he had other options and was willing to wait and not act impulsively, so I give him credit. Washington wanting Wentz was luckier than hell, I see no indication that other teams were interested and Washington was not the only team that NEEDED a QB. Maybe he got more for Wentz than other GMs could have, I don't know if that is true or not, but having someone willing to take Wentz off our hands after we totally shit the bed when we acquired him was pure luck in my opinion...but what does it really matter, I like how it worked out, I'm just not in awe of Ballard because of it.

People kept saying we were going to have to cut Wentz. But the guys is very talented. Coaching and GM egos are huge. I knew there would be no shortage of giant egos thinking they are the ones who will turn his talent around. If there is talent, someone is always willing to take a chance.

[CletusPyle]

People kept saying we were going to have to cut Wentz. But the guys is very talented. Coaching and GM egos are huge. I knew there would be no shortage of giant egos thinking they are the ones who will turn his talent around. If there is talent, someone is always willing to take a chance.

I know you said that, and Rivera has a massive ego....I am actually looking forward to seeing what Washington can do with Wentz. I wish him well, and of all the teams in the NFC East I like Washington the best, so I'd love to see them have a great season. I can't stand Philly or the Cowboys!

[Chromeburn]

You guys should listen to Zach and Stephon’s recent podcast. It gives a lot of insight to what happened.

https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/one-percent-better-a-show-about-the-indianapolis-colts/id1477561219?i=1000555729048

[Chromeburn]

I know you said that, and Rivera has a massive ego....I am actually looking forward to seeing what Washington can do with Wentz. I wish him well, and of all the teams in the NFC East I like Washington the best, so I'd love to see them have a great season. I can't stand Philly or the Cowboys!

I don’t mind the commanders. But they had a fight on the sideline last year, not sure Wentz helps that. I expect he will have a similar year. Might even beat us. But it seems he needs a lot of things to be good on the team for him to succeed. They have certainly had a bad run at QB. Wentz is actually the best addition they have done in awhile. Which tells us our situation could be a lot worse.

[rcubed]

You guys should listen to Zach and Stephon’s recent podcast. It gives a lot of insight to what happened.

https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/one-percent-better-a-show-about-the-indianapolis-colts/id1477561219?i=1000555729048
that was pretty good.

[Racehorse]

I agree. But in the NFL, any GM has to get a little lucky to bring a Lombardi to their franchise. You either have to shit the bed enough to land a Manning, Luck or Burrow- and the difference between the worst team in the league every year and 3rd or 4th worst team in the league is very minimal.
The other option, which also requires a perfect storm, is landing a savvy veteran whose team is ready to rebuild ala Manning, Brady, Ryan, Rivers, Wilson, etc. Your team has to have the roster AND cap room to bring in a guy like this or it isn't worth the effort. In our case, we may be close to having both so making the move for Ryan made sense. I also agree that if we didn't, Ballard and Reich's seat might both be very warm next offseason.

Of all the top guys, I think Reich's seat is unquestionably the warmest and if he doesn't have a good season- he's gone. I like him, I think he motivates decently- but also has shown BIG flags in this regard and how our team showed up to the most important 2 games of the season last year.
Reich coached some great games but for the most part had all of us scratching our head about personnel utilization and gameflow/aggression decisions. If he wants to cool his seat, he should have someone else calling his plays so he can blame them if it doesn't go well.
Most importantly, Reich became the poster boy for the Wentz' debacle. This alone was enough to make his seat hot (how could Reich's love for Jesus completely overshadow the red flags regarding Wentz' leadership inability to be coached?)
Reich and Ryan will have a good season together and I think that will settle this narrative down plenty anyway.

Ultimately, I think Ballard has done so admirably with his damage control job this offseason, he is more than safe in his role. At least straight through the swing at a new young franchise QB- and if he fails, I suppose all bets are off- but that won't be until around 5 years down the road.

I would venture to offer that the right QB would be able to know which of the two called plays would work best. If Ryan has success with the same playbook, then we know the problem was not the coach, but the guy who took the snap.

[Hoopsdoc]

You guys should listen to Zach and Stephon’s recent podcast. It gives a lot of insight to what happened.

https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/one-percent-better-a-show-about-the-indianapolis-colts/id1477561219?i=1000555729048

I was just coming here to mention this. Those guys are always a really good listen. They’re pretty plugged in to the organization.

They were adamant that Wentz wouldn’t be back from the day after Jacksonville.

One interesting thing they mentioned today is that Ballard originally balked at giving a 3rd round pick for Ryan. He was offering a 4th and Atlanta wasn’t biting. Then, he and Irsay had a talk and he relented.

Also, pretty striking that they literally had no plan at all beyond getting rid of Wentz. So the idea that they got really lucky here has a lot of merit.

[Discflinger]

Still the best owner in the league.

[Oldcolt]

I found it interesting that Ryan spent so much time investigating the Colts.If this wasn't a well run organization that had put together an excellent squad and whose owner, GM and coach are very well respected throughout the NFL Ryan ain't here. Irsay has put together a good group

Also liked how Irsay admitted that Luck retiring screwed the big time. I believe it is the main reason Irsay has been and is so patient with Ballard/Ryan. He knows they got a tough hand to deal with. Not blaming Luck, just stating a fact.

[ChaosTheory]

I found it interesting that Ryan spent so much time investigating the Colts.If this wasn't a well run organization that had put together an excellent squad and whose owner, GM and coach are very well respected throughout the NFL Ryan ain't here. Irsay has put together a good group

Also liked how Irsay admitted that Luck retiring screwed the big time. I believe it is the main reason Irsay has been and is so patient with Ballard/Ryan. He knows they got a tough hand to deal with. Not blaming Luck, just stating a fact.

That was my favorite part. The fact that Ryan was calling the Bears GM on his own to get some insight on Ballard and the Colts... I like the diligence.

[Spike]

I know you said that, and Rivera has a massive ego....I am actually looking forward to seeing what Washington can do with Wentz. I wish him well, and of all the teams in the NFC East I like Washington the best, so I'd love to see them have a great season. I can't stand Philly or the Cowboys!

I use to like the Redskins, now I don't care for them at all since they bent the knee and changed their name to the stupid Commanders. But I still like them better than the Cowboys.

Redskin fans are talking like they have the best QB in their division with Wentz. A lot of them are saying look at his stats. Well, stats can lie. They must have not watched a lot of Colt games. So glad to be rid of Wentz and now have Ryan, what an upgrade in leadership and QB smarts.

[ChaosTheory]

I use to like the Redskins, now I don't care for them at all since they bent the knee and changed their name to the stupid Commanders. But I still like them better than the Cowboys.

Redskin fans are talking like they have the best QB in their division with Wentz. A lot of them are saying look at his stats. Well, stats can lie. They must have not watched a lot of Colt games. So glad to be rid of Wentz and now have Ryan, what an upgrade as far as leaders go.

If there was such thing as a "That Should've Been a Pick" stat, then Wentz would've led the league in TSBP's.

[Spike]

It's really weird, but I went into the year really liking Wentz. I tried so damn hard to believe he was the answer to our QB issues. As the season went along, I started to hate the fucking guy. I believe the locker room felt the same damn way. Wentz is a talented beast, but with a 2 cent brain. Montana and Brady don't have near the ability of Wentz, with the exception of the most important aspect, QB smarts. I applaud the best owner in football, Mr. Irsay for recognizing this. Colt fans are blessed to have this owner, there is no one better.

[njcoltfan]

It's really weird, but I went into the year really liking Wentz. I tried so damn hard to believe he was the answer to our QB issues. As the season went along, I started to hate the fucking guy. I believe the locker room felt the same damn way. Wentz is a talented beast, but with a 2 cent brain. Montana and Brady don't have near the ability of Wentz, with the exception of the most important aspect, QB smarts. I applaud the best owner in football, Mr. Irsay for recognizing this. Colt fans are blessed to have this owner, there is no one better.

I would like Irsay to keep his mouth shut when describing the competition within our division, he tends to provide a lot of bulletin board material. with all due respect the Jags WERE NOT the worst team in the league in week 17, the Colt's were, by 15 points.

[CletusPyle]

I would like Irsay to keep his mouth shut when describing the competition within our division, he tends to provide a lot of bulletin board material. with all due respect the Jags WERE NOT the worst team in the league in week 17, the Colt's were, by 15 points.

I fear the Jags were sandbagging, that team we played in the final game was a pretty damn good football team! With a strong draft they could be a real handful next season!

[Spike]

I would like Irsay to keep his mouth shut when describing the competition within our division, he tends to provide a lot of bulletin board material. with all due respect the Jags WERE NOT the worst team in the league in week 17, the Colt's were, by 15 points.

With all due respect, bulletin board material is complete bullshit. Playing harder because someone says something that hurt your sorry ass feelings is pathetic, play your best all the time you overpaid bastards. I don't buy into that BS.

[JAFF]

I would like Irsay to keep his mouth shut when describing the competition within our division, he tends to provide a lot of bulletin board material. with all due respect the Jags WERE NOT the worst team in the league in week 17, the Colt's were, by 15 points.

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2022/04/01/jim-irsay-chris-ballard-looking-hard-at-adding-big-defensive-free-agent/

Jim knows what he is doing. I cant get the article up with my tablet, so click on the link

[Chromeburn]

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2022/04/01/jim-irsay-chris-ballard-looking-hard-at-adding-big-defensive-free-agent/

Jim knows what he is doing. I cant get the article up with my tablet, so click on the link

Another trade is a possibility as well. Could be why they have frozen on FA. Also see what they get in the draft.

[IndyNorm]

I fear the Jags were sandbagging, that team we played in the final game was a pretty damn good football team! With a strong draft they could be a real handful next season!

It's pretty tough to sandbag your way to 14 losses, most of them blowouts. They were the worst team in the league, and the Colts did their annual shit the bed performance @ Jax.

[Discflinger]

It's pretty tough to sandbag your way to 14 losses, most of them blowouts. They were the worst team in the league, and the Colts did their annual shit the bed performance @ Jax.

However, most of the fans showed up as clowns and it was a divisional game. Don’t you think they showed up?

[CletusPyle]

It's pretty tough to sandbag your way to 14 losses, most of them blowouts. They were the worst team in the league, and the Colts did their annual shit the bed performance @ Jax.

They didn't play like a 2-14 team in that game against the Colts. The Colts still should have found a way to win that game, but Lawrence looked pretty good in that game, and Marvin Joes made clutch catch after clutch catch. Lawrence did not look good in some of those blowout losses, but all of a sudden looked like the kid I saw in college in that last game...just looked a little suspicious to me.

[Racehorse]

I just want to note that I have no issues with Irsay making the call on Wentz. It was a call that had to be made, and it appears the other two in charge of making the decision were divided. It was the right decision.

[JAFF]

They didn't play like a 2-14 team in that game against the Colts. The Colts still should have found a way to win that game, but Lawrence looked pretty good in that game, and Marvin Joes made clutch catch after clutch catch. Lawrence did not look good in some of those blowout losses, but all of a sudden looked like the kid I saw in college in that last game...just looked a little suspicious to me.

Every Jags player was trying to save their jobs with that last game. If Wentz had stepped up he would probably still be a Colt.

NFL = not for long. No player is tanking to help the team get better draft picks so they can be replaced. They play to get paid.

[Racehorse]

They didn't play like a 2-14 team in that game against the Colts. The Colts still should have found a way to win that game, but Lawrence looked pretty good in that game, and Marvin Joes made clutch catch after clutch catch. Lawrence did not look good in some of those blowout losses, but all of a sudden looked like the kid I saw in college in that last game...just looked a little suspicious to me.

Maybe the game finally slowed down for him.

[JAFF]

Maybe the game finally slowed down for him.

It wasnt just Wentz. The colts played terrible on defense, the d couldnt get off the field

[CletusPyle]

Every Jags player was trying to save their jobs with that last game. If Wentz had stepped up he would probably still be a Colt.

NFL = not for long. No player is tanking to help the team get better draft picks so they can be replaced. They play to get paid.

I've heard this argument many times, play calling, preparation, personnel choices/playing time, all play a role in a teams success. I will never believe that teams are not throttled back at times in the NFL to improve draft order...same with the NBA!

[IndyNorm]

Maybe the game finally slowed down for him.

I'm sure Eberflus' D and giving his receivers 10 yards of cushion on every play had a lot to do with that.

[Colts And Orioles]

o


Whenever the topic of NFL teams tanking comes up, I always immediately think of what the 2011 Colts did in their final 3 games of the season.


In 2011, Peyton Manning was out for the entire year with a neck injury. The Colts started the season at 0-13. They seemed well on their way to getting the #1 overall pick (the Andrew Luck Sweepstakes) when they won 2 games in a row, and went right down to the wire in the final game of the season ........ a game in which it would have cost them that 1st overall pick had they won it, as the St. Louis Rams also went 2-14 that season. In that final game against the Jaguars, I remember the Colts scoring a touchdown late in the 4th quarter to cut the deficit to 19-13, and then calling timeouts on defense to try to get the ball back when the Jaguars were trying to run out the clock.

What the Colts did in those final 3 games of that season (and especially what they were doing late in the 4th quarter of the season finale) was the antithesis of tanking, with almost the entire football world waiting to see which team would be selecting Andrew Luck.

o

[JAFF]

I've heard this argument many times, play calling, preparation, personnel choices/playing time, all play a role in a teams success. I will never believe that teams are not throttled back at times in the NFL to improve draft order...same with the NBA!

The NFL does not have guaranteed contracts. The players are not throwing games for the owners, they can get cut any time, any day.

Oh, and since the NFL has gotten involved with gambling, anyone caught point shaving is going to jail. The players are not going to help owners to tank games, if they do, they are cutting their own throats.

[JAFF]

I'm sure Eberflus' D and giving his receivers 10 yards of cushion on every play had a lot to do with that.

It had to do with a lack of healthy safeties

[Colts And Orioles]

The NFL does not have guaranteed contracts. The players are not throwing games for the owners, they can get cut any time, any day.

Oh, and since the NFL has gotten involved with gambling, anyone caught point shaving is going to jail ...... the players are not going to help owners to tank games, because if they did, they would be cutting their own throats.





o


I believe that some team owners WOULD LIKE to see their team lose games late in what are otherwise lost-cause seasons ...... I DO NOT believe that there is a player, a head coach, an offensive coordinator, or a defensive coordinator in the game that would be willing to play along and intentionally sabotage their own play/coaching record for the whims/wishes of those team owners.

o

[apballin]

Classic case of Jags superbowl (last game of a shitty season)

Colts playing a shitty team trying to go thru the motions and save some energy for the playoffs next week

But whatever Carson has to win that game instead he fumbles in the 2nd half killing any opportunities to go ahead and put the pussies away.

Fuck the Jags

I’m glad Jim had the balls to make that call, and I’m excited about Ryan dudes a pro and he shows up for work. This will be the first camp Reich has had to work with a QB in 2 years

[CletusPyle]

o


I believe that some team owners WOULD LIKE to see their team lose games late in what are otherwise lost-cause seasons ...... I DO NOT believe that there is a player, a head coach, an offensive coordinator, or a defensive coordinator in the game that would be willing to play along and intentionally sabotage their own play/coaching record for the whims/wishes of those team owners.

o

Brian Flores seems to back up your comment, but see Hue Jackson's claims in this same article....and I find it hard to believe that there would not be coaches willing to carry out the owner's wishes considering the amount of money involved.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nfl/how-often-do-nfl-owners-pay-coaches-to-tank-for-a-better-draft-position/ar-AATpg2d

[JAFF]

Brian Flores seems to back up your comment, but see Hue Jackson's claims in this same article....and I find it hard to believe that there would not be coaches willing to carry out the owner's wishes considering the amount of money involved.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nfl/how-often-do-nfl-owners-pay-coaches-to-tank-for-a-better-draft-position/ar-AATpg2d

Where is Hue Campbell now? Not in the nfl

[CletusPyle]

Where is Hue Campbell now? Not in the nfl

I assume you mean Hue Jackson...maybe he should have kept his mouth shut? :D

[JAFF]

I assume you mean Hue Jackson...maybe he should have kept his mouth shut? :D

Yeah, veered off course.

[Colts And Orioles]

o


I believe that some team owners WOULD LIKE to see their team lose games late in what are otherwise lost-cause seasons ...... I DO NOT believe that there is a player, a head coach, an offensive coordinator, or a defensive coordinator in the game that would be willing to play along and intentionally sabotage their own play/coaching record for the whims/wishes of those team owners.

o







Brian Flores seems to back up your comment, but see Hue Jackson's claims in this same article.. .... and I find it hard to believe that there would not be coaches willing to carry out the owner's wishes considering the amount of money involved.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nfl/how-often-do-nfl-owners-pay-coaches-to-tank-for-a-better-draft-position/ar-AATpg2d




o


This is a list of salaries for head coaches in the NFL.


https://en.as.com/en/2022/02/01/nfl/1643717463_799339.html


The lowest ...... THE LOWEST salary is $3 Million per year. The highest salary is $12.5 Million per year. And that coach WHO MAKES THE LEAST amount of money at $3 Million per year is the one who blew the whistle on his owner for trying to bribe him to lose games.

It would be almost unfathomable for a head coach to be willing to hurt his own legacy AND risk being caught and booted from the NFL for life because an owner offered to give him a $100,000 bonus, a $300,000 bonus, or even a $500,000 bonus in order to tank games.

It would be tantamount to a star player who makes between $15 Million and $30 Million per year throwing a game for a few million dollars and not only hurting his legacy in the process, but also risking his career AND his pension for doing so.


One of the inadvertent consequences of athletes and coaches making the absurd amounts of money that they do these days is that it is nearly impossible to get one of them (and especially a group of them) to fix/tank games for money.

o

[CletusPyle]

o


This is a list of salaries for head coaches in the NFL.


https://en.as.com/en/2022/02/01/nfl/1643717463_799339.html


The lowest ...... THE LOWEST salary is $3 Million per year. The highest salary is $12.5 Million per year. And that coach WHO MAKES THE LEAST amount of money at $3 Million per year is the one who blew the whistle on his owner for trying to bribe him to lose games.

It would be almost unfathomable for a head coach to be willing to hurt his own legacy AND risk being caught and booted from the NFL for life because an owner offered to give him a $100,000 bonus, a $300,000 bonus, or even a $500,000 bonus in order to tank games.

It would be tantamount to a star player who makes between $15 Million and $30 Million per year throwing a game for a few million dollars and not only hurting his legacy in the process, but also risking his career AND his pension for doing so.


One of the inadvertent consequences of athletes and coaches making the absurd amounts of money that they do these days is that it is nearly impossible to get one of them (and especially a group of them) to fix/tank games for money.

o

The article proves that at least 2 coaches in the not too distant past say they did or were ask to do what I suggested might be possible. You make a good argument, and I hope you are right, but if there are owners willing to make the request then there are also people willing to carry it out. How can you be so sure, as you stated, that "there isn't one coach or player" willing to do this when this one article has two coaches saying they either did it or were approached to do it?

[Colts And Orioles]

The article proves that at least 2 coaches in the not too distant past say they did or were ask to do what I suggested might be possible. You make a good argument, and I hope you are right, but if there are owners willing to make the request then there are also people willing to carry it out. How can you be so sure, as you stated, that "there isn't one coach or player" willing to do this when this one article has two coaches saying they either did it or were approached to do it ???




o


"Did" or "were asked to do" are 2 different animals. Brian Flores asserted that he was asked to do so by his owner, and he obviously did not carry out what was asked of him ...... in fact, his actions of publicly blowing the whistle on his owner for his alleged bribe attempt exemplifies what I am pointing out. I can't necessarily prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that Bethune–Cookman University won't win the Division-I NCAA basketball tournament next year, but I believe that it is a fairly safe bet/presumption.

And now that anybody who is even mildly familiar with the NFL is well aware of Brian Flores' allegations about what his owner asked him to do, the likelihood of a coach being stupid/crazy enough to accept and go along with tanking games at his owner's request in the future is even less because of the major scrutiny that surrounds the whole tanking concept even more than it did in the first place.

o

[CletusPyle]

o


"Did" or "were asked to do" are 2 different animals. Brian Flores asserted that he was asked to do so by his owner, and he obviously did not carry out what was asked of him ...... in fact, his actions of publicly blowing the whistle on his owner for his alleged bribe attempt exemplifies what I am pointing out. I can't necessarily prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that Bethune–Cookman University won't win the Division-I NCAA basketball tournament next year, but I believe that it is a fairly safe bet/presumption.

And now that anybody who is even mildly familiar with the NFL is well aware of Brian Flores' allegations about what his owner asked him to do, the likelihood of a coach being stupid/crazy enough to accept and go along with tanking games at his owner's request in the future is even less because of the major scrutiny that surrounds the whole tanking concept even more than it did in the first place.

o

And if you believe Hue Jackson, it proves that what I suggested can and did happen!

[JAFF]

And if you believe Hue Jackson, it proves that what I suggested can and did happen!

You are talking about the owner of the browns right. Jim Haslam has a problem with honesty.

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/11214330/jimmy-haslam-company-pilot-flying-j-pay-92m-fine

I can see an owner tell a coach to tank games. The problem is the coach’s career is done when he gets caught. The NFL owners arent going to tolerate being cheated by a partner

[CletusPyle]

You are talking about the owner of the browns right. Jim Haslam has a problem with honesty.

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/11214330/jimmy-haslam-company-pilot-flying-j-pay-92m-fine

I can see an owner tell a coach to tank games. The problem is the coach’s career is done when he gets caught. The NFL owners arent going to tolerate being cheated by a partner

Well, I think we can all agree that tanking a season, if it happens at all would be a very rare occurrence. But if it happens it would involve very dishonest people....the comment I made about the Jaguars possibly sandbagging last season started this discussion, and for the first 13 games last season their coach was Urban Meyer. Now I don't know much about the Jags owner, but I've seen enough of Urban Meyer to believe he would be capable of carrying out such a plan!

[IndyNorm]

Well, I think we can all agree that tanking a season, if it happens at all would be a very rare occurrence. But if it happens it would involve very dishonest people....the comment I made about the Jaguars possibly sandbagging last season started this discussion, and for the first 13 games last season their coach was Urban Meyer. Now I don't know much about the Jags owner, but I've seen enough of Urban Meyer to believe he would be capable of carrying out such a plan!

Were the Jagoffs tanking it during these games after Meyer was fired?:

Week 15 - Loss vs. Houston 30-16
Week 16 - Loss @ NYJ 26-21
Week 17 - Loss @ Cheats 50-10

No, the Colts just shit the bed like they always do in Jax.

[YDFL Commish]

Hue Jackson was incompetent. He lost games because he sucked as a coach. Its not like it was a one year thing , it was career thing.

[Colts And Orioles]

And if you believe Hue Jackson, it proves that what I suggested can and did happen !!!










Hue Jackson was incompetent. He lost games because he sucked as a coach. Its not like it was a one year thing, it was career thing.




o


If so, then that would be the ultimate sour grapes excuse ...... "Don't blame me for the team losing, my team lost games because I was trying to lose."

Again, it would be insane for Jackson (or any head coach in the NFL) to throw games intentionally at the whim of the team owner for what would essentially be pocket change in a profession in which the the lowest-paid coach makes $3 Million per year.


So there are 2 possibilities ...... Hue Jackson is either an extremely stupid person with no sense of reason/logic, or he sucked as a head coach and is making excuses for it after the fact. The latter is probably more likely.

o

[CletusPyle]

o


If so, then that would be the ultimate sour grapes excuse ...... "Don't blame me for the team losing, my team lost games because I was trying to lose."

Again, it would be insane for Jackson (or any head coach in the NFL) to throw games intentionally at the whim of the team owner for what would essentially be pocket change in a profession in which the the lowest-paid coach makes $3 Million per year.


So there are 2 possibilities ...... Hue Jackson is either an extremely stupid person with no sense of reason/logic, or he sucked as a head coach and is making excuses for it after the fact. The latter is probably more likely.

o

Or he was only hired for that one reason and would never have been hired and paid millions unless he agreed upfront to carry out his mission! You need to think more like a criminal.....:D