Leonard on what happened the last couple of weeks

[Oldcolt]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HBmpcMPN-rc

He thinks complacency set in

[omahacolt]

lack of leadership of the players

[Brylok]

The Colts collapsed when it mattered most. What anyone says about it is irrelevant.

[rm1369]

lack of leadership of the players

Leonard seems to be one of the most vocal players, but he’s a talker not a leader. There is a huge difference.

[omahacolt]

Leonard seems to be one of the most vocal players, but he’s a talker not a leader. There is a huge difference.

absolutley

[JAFF]

Leonard seems to be one of the most vocal players, but he’s a talker not a leader. There is a huge difference.

How would you know?

[Spike]

How would you know?

Exactly JAFF, great post, awesome, how the fuck would you know? I know the answer though, he refused to take the jab, so therefore he is not a leader according to some.

[Spike]

Leonard seems to be one of the most vocal players, but he’s a talker not a leader. There is a huge difference.

I call Bullshit on this. Like JAFF stated how the hell do you know that he is not a leader? He has his beliefs and didn't back off from them. in my opinion, that is a fucking leader whether you like it or not.

[Butter]

I call Bullshit on this. Like JAFF stated how the hell do you know that he is not a leader? He has his beliefs and didn't back off from them. in my opinion, that is a fucking leader whether you like it or not.

He is a very vocal anti-vax idiot. Case closed.

[Colts And Orioles]

Leonard seems to be one of the most vocal players ...... but he’s a talker, not a leader. There is a huge difference.











How would you know?





o


Being a "leader" is not easily quantifiable ...... it's certainly not something that I would want to be asked to define, especially if I was not on the team and privy to what goes on and/or what is said in the locker room, on the sidelines, and on the playing field.

o

[Spike]

He is a very vocal anti-vax idiot. Case closed.

Case may be closed for you Columbo, but just because people don't agree with your way of thinking does not make them a non-leader.

[AlwaysSunnyinIndy]

How would you know?

Well, you can take a look at what Leonard has stated himself publicly.

He has stated that prior to this year, he hasn't really focused on being a leader. He + the defense relied on Anthony Walker to fill that role.

So he may need some time to develop those skills.

[Spike]

Well, you can take a look at what Leonard has stated himself publicly.

He has stated that prior to this year, he hasn't really focused on being a leader. He + the defense relied on Anthony Walker to fill that role.

So he may need some time to develop those skills.

Okay, I have played sports all the way through college. Can someone explain to me what being a leader on a sports team is. Being vocal? Something else?

Just asking?

[AlwaysSunnyinIndy]

Okay, I have played sports all the way through college. Can someone explain to me what being a leader on a sports team is. Being vocal? Something else?

Just asking?


Leonard basically equated it to being a coach on the field.

He stated that Walker did a ton of film study before games and would come to meetings prepared to ask the coaches questions about the game plan for about every single position.

He also said that when players had questions about assignments while out on the practice field, that they went to Walker as often as the coaches.

And he also stated that Walker would hold each player accountable - that was something that Leonard said he would need to work on instead of only worrying about himself.

[Spike]

Leonard basically equated it to being a coach on the field.

He stated that Walker did a ton of film study before games and would come to meetings prepared to ask the coaches questions about the game plan for about every single position.

He also said that when players had questions about assignments while out on the practice field, that they went to Walker as often as the coaches.

And he also stated that Walker would hold each player accountable - that was something that Leonard said he would need to work on instead of only worrying about himself.

Okay, thank you ASII.

[Butter]

Case may be closed for you Columbo, but just because people don't agree with your way of thinking does not make them a non-leader.

Nope, facts.

[Lov2fish]

Nope, facts.

Nope, your opiniated facts. Not actual facts..

[rm1369]

How would you know?

As has been said - a combination of his own words and, yes, his vax stance. I think his comments on Walker are self explanatory. You are free to disagree on his vax stance being a lack of leadership, but to me it obviously was. Being vaxed was a competitive advantage. The rules were designed to make it so. Not sure how anyone can argue otherwise. A leader models the way to win and helps get others to follow suit through actions and, often, words. Leonard did the opposite of that. His actions and words promoted a disadvantage. Was it coincidence the team fell apart once it was hit with Covid? Maybe. But a few of us said the teams vax status demonstrated a lack of commitment and leadership. Watching this team at the end of the season it sure seems like that was the case. Teams with good leadership don’t fall apart like that, they don’t become complacent and miss the playoffs. It wasn’t one bad game, they lost two games they should have won.

I’ll also add this interview reinforces my opinion. Every time he talks about the negative stuff of being complacent he says “guys” or “people”, not “we”. “Guys” start believing we can’t lose. “People” get a little complacent. He hopes “guys” use the loss as motivation and “guys” learn that nothing is given to you. Very few “we’s” and never in the right context. The way I hear that is Leonard wasn’t part of the issue - it was the other “guys”. Funny, I don’t really remember him playing well in those two games. Regardless his words admit there was a leadership problem and he is supposed to be one of the leaders. I’m sure it was the other “guys” though, just don’t include him in the group.

The funny thing is if I had made the same comment about Wentz it would have received a ton of likes and a bunch of agreement. You wouldn’t question how I would know. But because it’s Leonard and not Wentz the defenders come out in force. Leonard is a great player, but that doesn’t make him a leader.

[IndyNorm]

I call Bullshit on this. Like JAFF stated how the hell do you know that he is not a leader? He has his beliefs and didn't back off from them. in my opinion, that is a fucking leader whether you like it or not.

Well a real leader, or at least a good one, wouldn't have let his team shit the bed against the worst team in the NFL with a playoff spot on the line.

[rm1369]

He has his beliefs and didn't back off from them. in my opinion, that is a fucking leader whether you like it or not.

I guess that depends on if where they are leading someone matters. In this context I was generically saying “leader” when I meant leading in a positive direction, not a negative one. I don’t see having conviction in something as a commendable trait by itself. Some racists have conviction. Many terrorists have conviction. Jim Jones had conviction. I’ll concede Leonard “led” his team towards a competitive disadvantage, and he “led” many in his community to a higher death rate (among other issues). I really don’t see either of those two things as debatable. And I’ll agree he did it based on his strongly held beliefs. But again, I used “leader” in reference to a positive direction. My apologies for the confusion.

[Butter]

Nope, your opiniated facts. Not actual facts..

No real facts, not fox facts.

[Spike]

Well a real leader, or at least a good one, wouldn't have let his team shit the bed against the worst team in the NFL with a playoff spot on the line.

What? Leonard plays linebacker and how did he have an affect on the shit show the offense put out there vs. the Jackoffs? Leaders can only do so much, they are not miracle workers. He was one of our best players all year long, and that is not even debatable. Fuck!!!!!! Wentz is the fucking problem, hell, I hate even having to type this up.

[Spike]

No real facts, not fox facts.

Bullshit Butter, real facts my ass. Fox facts? Who has the real facts, CNN? LMAO!

[Racehorse]

Getting real tired of this Covid shit in every thread.

[Mr. Session]

Getting real tired of this Covid shit in every thread.

Yeah, especially when it’s not even necessary to make the argument. At least IMO.

I don’t know many good leaders that need “haters” to get fully motivated to try and achieve great things. Typically that motivation comes from something within.

[rm1369]

Yeah, especially when it’s not even necessary to make the argument. At least IMO.

I don’t know many good leaders that need “haters” to get fully motivated to try and achieve great things. Typically that motivation comes from something within.

His focus and I guess we’ll call in pettiness with that bothers me. It was one of the first things that made me wonder about his leadership, but in fairness a lot of great athletes are known to look for slights as motivation. Jordan and Bird are two that immediately jump out at me. The difference seems to be the way it manifests itself. To me it comes off as being overly concerned about the wrong things. Maybe Jordan and Bird would be liking “haters” tweets all the time if they played today, but I honestly doubt it.

[Oldcolt]

The thing that makes me think this is a correct story is the silence from the Colts. I think Peter King may be correct that there is something else that went down between Wentz and the Colts other than his shit play. He played adequately for the middle of the season and with what is available out there two incredibly shit games don't seem enough to throw away what we gave for him already. There surely is more to it than that. This was Kings take this morning:

Carson Wentz. My first reaction when I heard Chris Mortensen’s report that the Colts would try to trade Wentz in the next month: There’s something bubbling beneath the surface here. Wentz failed down the stretch for Indianapolis, but the play itself (middling .624 accuracy rate, 27 TDs, seven picks, 94.7 rating) wasn’t bad enough for the Colts and coach/mentor Frank Reich to give up on a player they spent first- and third-round picks to acquire.

A couple of things to consider here. Late in his Eagles’ tenure, Wentz did some immature things—got ticked off about the team drafting Jalen Hurts in the second round in 2020, reportedly stopped talking to coach Doug Pederson for a period. He got benched for poor play down the stretch of the season, leading to his trade to Indy. Reich loved him in Philadelphia. My guess is something happened here, something other than a 9-8 record, that led to this moment. Attitude, an incident, work ethic, loss of trust. Something. I don’t know what.

[Spike]

Getting real tired of this Covid shit in every thread.

Me and you both brother.

[JAFF]

Getting real tired of this Covid shit in every thread.

Hard to avoid it. It impacted every team this year. Some teams did a better job of managing it.

[Colts And Orioles]

The thing that makes me think that this is a correct story is the silence from the Colts. I think that Peter King may be correct that there is something else that went down between Wentz and the Colts other than his shit play. He played adequately for the middle of the season and with what is available out there two incredibly shit games don't seem enough to throw away what we gave for him already. There surely is more to it than that. This was Kings take this morning:

Carson Wentz. My first reaction when I heard Chris Mortensen’s report that the Colts would try to trade Wentz in the next month: There’s something bubbling beneath the surface here. Wentz failed down the stretch for Indianapolis, but the play itself (middling .624 accuracy rate, 27 TDs, seven picks, 94.7 rating) wasn’t bad enough for the Colts and coach/mentor Frank Reich to give up on a player they spent first- and third-round picks to acquire.

A couple of things to consider here. Late in his Eagles’ tenure, Wentz did some immature things—got ticked off about the team drafting Jalen Hurts in the second round in 2020, reportedly stopped talking to coach Doug Pederson for a period. He got benched for poor play down the stretch of the season, leading to his trade to Indy. Reich loved him in Philadelphia. My guess is something happened here, something other than a 9-8 record, that led to this moment. Attitude, an incident, work ethic, loss of trust. Something. I don’t know what.





o


Sometimes, silence speaks louder than words ...... not always, but sometimes.

o

[Butter]

Bullshit Butter, real facts my ass. Fox facts? Who has the real facts, CNN? LMAO!

Who mentioned CNN? Though it is by far a better source than Fox, not that it is unbiased. Fox is a far-right propaganda machine.

[Racehorse]

Who mentioned CNN? Though it is by far a better source than Fox, not that it is unbiased. Fox is a far-right propaganda machine.

Odd that you say that. I hear a lot of people on the right say Fox is moving too far to the left.

[rm1369]

Odd that you say that. I hear a lot of people on the right say Fox is moving too far to the left.

Without a doubt even they aren’t extreme enough for a not insignificant portion of the population. Trumpism thrives on hatred, loyalty, and ignorance. FOX wasn’t sufficiently loyal - I mean they called Arizona for Biden.

[omahacolt]

Odd that you say that. I hear a lot of people on the right say Fox is moving too far to the left.

I have heard some coworkers say that as well. It’s absurd but I have heard it. The problem with right wingers is they have a hard time believing “their team” is ever in the wrong. They can’t handle facts when presented to them.

[Oldcolt]

All politicians are pieces of shit. How people identify with these assholes and set up their entire lives around what they say and do is baffling to me. Vote how you want but stop making it your freakin religion.

[JAFF]

Odd that you say that. I hear a lot of people on the right say Fox is moving too far to the left.

That could only happen if Fox news got lost going so far right they circumnavigated the Earth and came out on the left of MSNBC.

[rcubed]

That could only happen if Fox news got lost going so far right they circumnavigated the Earth and came out on the left of MSNBC.
but...but...but...the earth is flat.....

[JAFF]

but...but...but...the earth is flat.....

Fat Donnie told you that?

[Colts And Orioles]

but ... but ... but ... the earth is flat ......





o


The verdict is still out on that.

o

[JAFF]

A lot of things happened in the last month, some of it football related and some of it personal. Several of the un vaccinated players got sick, the Kelly’s lost their unborn child, a lot of poor play and poor coaching.

Irsays is unhappy and I think he needs to go look in a mirror, he is part of the problem as well. Everything that happened or didnt happen was under his watch. From signing Wentz, how they approach covid, the number of players who were hurt before the season even started. It was a carnival from beginning to end.

If the organization doesnt dissect the season and make changes in scouting, player evaluation, medical policy, and coaching evaluations starting with Reich. He needs to let the OC and Qb coach do their jobs and deal with the big decisions on game day.

Wentz is the most obvious issue with the end of the season, but he had a lot of company, players and coaches who could have done better job on and off the field

[IndyNorm]

What? Leonard plays linebacker and how did he have an affect on the shit show the offense put out there vs. the Jackoffs? Leaders can only do so much, they are not miracle workers. He was one of our best players all year long, and that is not even debatable. Fuck!!!!!! Wentz is the fucking problem, hell, I hate even having to type this up.

Agreed that the O and Wentz sucked balls against the Jagoffs, but the D shit the bed too. Not saying that Leonard is a bad player, he's obviously great. I'm just saying that as of at least right now it doesn't appear that he's a good leader.

[apballin]

You need a leader on both sides of the ball

Leonard is clearly the guy on defense

Wentz clearly never should’ve been on offense it should’ve been Taylor from week 1

Being a leader is knowing what’s needed at the right moment Leonard always steps up when the team needs him Wentz seems to fold up and choke when he’s needed the most

That can kill the belief and shatter confidence of wanting to give your all for a guy

Gotta have balance

[rm1369]

You need a leader on both sides of the ball

Leonard is clearly the guy on defense

Wentz clearly never should’ve been on offense it should’ve been Taylor from week 1

Being a leader is knowing what’s needed at the right moment Leonard always steps up when the team needs him Wentz seems to fold up and choke when he’s needed the most

That can kill the belief and shatter confidence of wanting to give your all for a guy

Gotta have balance

We have a fundamental difference on what a leader is. What you describe is, to me anyway, a great player - not necessarily a leader. I think it is great for the team if it’s best players are also leaders, but it isn’t a requirement. Many great players are actually poor leaders because the natural talents they possess don’t transfer to those around them. For example, here is a quote from Leonard on Walker’s departure:

“Now that Anthony Walker is gone, you need that person to take in that leadership role and say, ‘Okay, this is what you have to do,'” Leonard said, via Joel A. Erickson of the Indianapolis Star. “‘This is the way that it has to be.’ . . . I’m going to have to quit being this friendly guy, quit being this guy that smiles all the time and goes about doing it his way. Now, it’s about this is the right way, this is how we do it, and hold people accountable that way.”

Notice that Leonard himself said he had been doing things “his way” and now he has to do them “the right way”? Leonard was a great player before this year, but his methods were by his own admission not what you want the majority of the team to emulate. Why? Because it likely won’t work for them.

This quote is just another example of why I don’t see Leonard as a leader. Think about what he actually said here. He basically said: “I anoint myself leader and now I’ll have to start doing things the right way solely so I can start holding others accountable for doing things their own way - as I did prior to declaring myself the leader”. Without a doubt a great player, but that is pretty fucking far from EFFECTIVE leadership.

Taking it to Wentz, he’s not a shitty leader because he isn’t a great player. He’s a shitty leader because he models poor habits. The apparent lack of coachability would get plenty of other guys cut. Wentz is significantly more naturally talented than Jacoby Brissett, but I consider Brissett a leader and Wentz much closer to a cancer. If everyone on the team modeled Jacoby’s work ethic, coachability, and selflessness you’d likely have a pretty decent team (assuming at least average talent). If everyone modeled Wentz you’d be battling for the #1 pick.

I see no indications Leonard is a leader. I see that he feels he should be one. Maybe he’ll become one in time. But to me it doesn’t appear natural to him. Great player though.

[apballin]

We have a fundamental difference on what a leader is. What you describe is, to me anyway, a great player - not necessarily a leader. I think it is great for the team if it’s best players are also leaders, but it isn’t a requirement. Many great players are actually poor leaders because the natural talents they possess don’t transfer to those around them. For example, here is a quote from Leonard on Walker’s departure:

“Now that Anthony Walker is gone, you need that person to take in that leadership role and say, ‘Okay, this is what you have to do,'” Leonard said, via Joel A. Erickson of the Indianapolis Star. “‘This is the way that it has to be.’ . . . I’m going to have to quit being this friendly guy, quit being this guy that smiles all the time and goes about doing it his way. Now, it’s about this is the right way, this is how we do it, and hold people accountable that way.”

Notice that Leonard himself said he had been doing things “his way” and now he has to do them “the right way”? Leonard was a great player before this year, but his methods were by his own admission not what you want the majority of the team to emulate. Why? Because it likely won’t work for them.

This quote is just another example of why I don’t see Leonard as a leader. Think about what he actually said here. He basically said: “I anoint myself leader and now I’ll have to start doing things the right way solely so I can start holding others accountable for doing things their own way - as I did prior to declaring myself the leader”. Without a doubt a great player, but that is pretty fucking far from EFFECTIVE leadership.

Taking it to Wentz, he’s not a shitty leader because he isn’t a great player. He’s a shitty leader because he models poor habits. The apparent lack of coachability would get plenty of other guys cut. Wentz is significantly more naturally talented than Jacoby Brissett, but I consider Brissett a leader and Wentz much closer to a cancer. If everyone on the team modeled Jacoby’s work ethic, coachability, and selflessness you’d likely have a pretty decent team (assuming at least average talent). If everyone modeled Wentz you’d be battling for the #1 pick.

I see no indications Leonard is a leader. I see that he feels he should be one. Maybe he’ll become one in time. But to me it doesn’t appear natural to him. Great player though.

What he says to some Colts beat writer don’t mean anything to me

Some guys lead by example some guys are rah rah leaders some guys are in between

How can Leonard hold guys accountable he doesn’t own the team

A leader steps up in big moments, has respect of all his teammates, and makes everyone bring their game up. I feel like the defense feeds of Leonard

There’s a difference when respect is earned and given

Leonard earned it

Wentz was given it

[IndyNorm]

What he says to some Colts beat writer don’t mean anything to me

Some guys lead by example some guys are rah rah leaders some guys are in between

How can Leonard hold guys accountable he doesn’t own the team

A leader steps up in big moments, has respect of all his teammates, and makes everyone bring their game up. I feel like the defense feeds of Leonard

There’s a difference when respect is earned and given

Leonard earned it

Wentz was given it

And yet his defense shit the bed in the biggest moment of the year against the worst team in the league. Clearly whatever Leonard did to help his team get ready for this big moment didn't work.

[rm1369]

What he says to some Colts beat writer don’t mean anything to me

Some guys lead by example some guys are rah rah leaders some guys are in between

How can Leonard hold guys accountable he doesn’t own the team

A leader steps up in big moments, has respect of all his teammates, and makes everyone bring their game up. I feel like the defense feeds of Leonard

There’s a difference when respect is earned and given

Leonard earned it

Wentz was given it

I still see no difference between your definition of leadership and greatness. Terrell Owens, young Randy Moss, Antonio Brown, Levon Bell. All great players and, by your definition, leaders. Sorry, I’ll disagree.

You ask how Leonard is supposed to hold guys accountable. Do you recognize those where his words and not mine? Then you say he makes everyone bring their game up. I’ll ask you how? The most beneficial way to me is by modeling the right dedication, film study, body care, etc during the week. That’s leadership to me. Doing things “your way” instead of “the right way” during the week and then making a big play is greatness. Both are important, but they are different. To me at least.

Using your own definition, Leonard’s leadership failed against the Jags. He played like shit and so did nearly everyone else. He then comes out and talks about how OTHER GUYS need to learn from the failure. He’s a talker, not a leader.
.

[JAFF]

And yet his defense shit the bed in the biggest moment of the year against the worst team in the league. Clearly whatever Leonard did to help his team get ready for this big moment didn't work.

Really? Because of Leonard they lost? It was a team effort across the board

[apballin]

And yet his defense shit the bed in the biggest moment of the year against the worst team in the league. Clearly whatever Leonard did to help his team get ready for this big moment didn't work.

The jags had 300 yards of total offense that’s hardly shitting the bed, Wentz turnovers lost that game did the defense have a great game No but 300 yards is not getting dominated

The offense scored 11 points

You realize Leonard can only do so much right

[apballin]

I still see no difference between your definition of leadership and greatness. Terrell Owens, young Randy Moss, Antonio Brown, Levon Bell. All great players and, by your definition, leaders. Sorry, I’ll disagree.

You ask how Leonard is supposed to hold guys accountable. Do you recognize those where his words and not mine? Then you say he makes everyone bring their game up. I’ll ask you how? The most beneficial way to me is by modeling the right dedication, film study, body care, etc during the week. That’s leadership to me. Doing things “your way” instead of “the right way” during the week and then making a big play is greatness. Both are important, but they are different. To me at least.

Using your own definition, Leonard’s leadership failed against the Jags. He played like shit and so did nearly everyone else. He then comes out and talks about how OTHER GUYS need to learn from the failure. He’s a talker, not a leader.
.

Are you fuckin kidding me???

He’s put up historic numbers only comparable to Ray Lewis at this point in his career he created more turnovers than half of the teams in the NFL by himself with zero pass rush all year

He talks and backs it up fuck that Reich and Wentz failed more than anyone on this entire team all year and most of all the last 2 weeks of the season

Leonard can only mask so much he’s a leader but I’ll say it again you gotta have it on both sides of the ball

[rm1369]

Are you fuckin kidding me???

He’s put up historic numbers only comparable to Ray Lewis at this point in his career he created more turnovers than half of the teams in the NFL by himself with zero pass rush all year

He talks and backs it up fuck that Reich and Wentz failed more than anyone on this entire team all year and most of all the last 2 weeks of the season

Leonard can only mask so much he’s a leader but I’ll say it again you gotta have it on both sides of the ball

I’ve not questioned Leonard’s greatness, only his leadership. You are the one that can’t separate the two. Go back and look at the list of players I provided. Each one was great. Would you defend them as leaders as you are Leonard? Hell, each one of them won more than Leonard has so far. Yes it’s a team game. I don’t think anyone is trying to blame Leonard for the entire collapse. He just hasn’t shown leadership and the team needs some.

I’ll also point out that you say you need leadership on both sides of the ball. I agree. However using your definition don’t the Colts have offensive leadership? Taylor and Nelson are both great players right? By the definition you keep providing that should mean they are also great leaders. Or just maybe, there is a difference between the two.

[apballin]

I’ve not questioned Leonard’s greatness, only his leadership. You are the one that can’t separate the two. Go back and look at the list of players I provided. Each one was great. Would you defend them as leaders as you are Leonard? Hell, each one of them won more than Leonard has so far. Yes it’s a team game. I don’t think anyone is trying to blame Leonard for the entire collapse. He just hasn’t shown leadership and the team needs some.

You listed 4 diva ass bitches that played offense always cried about getting the ball all the goddam time and weren’t loyal to teammates or teams not 1 guy you listed was ever considered a leader

Moss had his best season when he had a true leader

But again I don’t see any comparison of offensive players to a leader on defense

Some guys have to grow into leadership ofcourse Leonard wasn’t expecting to be a leader he’s been a small school guy overlooked and underrated his entire life but I’d say he’s growing into a hell of a player and only scratched the surface of his ability to lead

[JAFF]

You listed 4 diva ass bitches that played offense always cried about getting the ball all the goddam time and weren’t loyal to teammates or teams not 1 guy you listed was ever considered a leader

Moss had his best season when he had a true leader

But again I don’t see any comparison of offensive players to a leader on defense

Some guys have to grow into leadership ofcourse Leonard wasn’t expecting to be a leader he’s been a small school guy overlooked and underrated his entire life but I’d say he’s growing into a hell of a player and only scratched the surface of his ability to lead

Randy Moss was a me guy. Didnt play on a super bowl winner. Brady couldnt get that guy a ring

[rm1369]

You listed 4 diva ass bitches that played offense always cried about getting the ball all the goddam time and weren’t loyal to teammates or teams not 1 guy you listed was ever considered a leader

Moss had his best season when he had a true leader

But again I don’t see any comparison of offensive players to a leader on defense

Some guys have to grow into leadership ofcourse Leonard wasn’t expecting to be a leader he’s been a small school guy overlooked and underrated his entire life but I’d say he’s growing into a hell of a player and only scratched the surface of his ability to lead

Yes I listed 4 diva ass bitches to show that great play doesn’t equate leadership. They are different things. Your defense of Leonard’s leadership is that he makes great plays. So did those 4 divas. That didn’t make them leaders and it doesn’t make Leonard one either.

You are right, he may grow into it. But that means he isn’t it now, so I’m not quite sure why you thinks it’s ridiculous to say he has issues with leadership currently.

Aren’t Taylor and Nelson great players as well? I’d say every reason you use to say Leonard is a leader can apply to those two. In that case the offense doesn’t lack leadership. Unless leadership and great play are simply two different things.

[Colts And Orioles]

Really ??? Because of Leonard they lost ??? It was a team effort across the board.





o


I will go to my grave believing that Dan Marino was a better quarterback than Terry Bradshaw, and Peyton Manning was a better quarterback than Tom Brady.

Bradshaw won 4 Super Bowls, was the MVP in 2 of those 4 Super Bowl wins, while Dan Marino's team got blown out by a score of 38-16 in the only Super Bowl that he ever reached in his historic career ...... but there is no doubt in my mind that Marino was the better quarterback than Bradshaw.


Also, while Brady's teams went 7-3 in Super Bowls in his career (compared to Manning's teams going 2-2 in Super Bowls in his career), Manning's teams actually beat Brady's teams 3 times out of 4 in AFC Championship games ...... Brady's Patriots beat Manning's Colts in the 2003 AFC Championship game, while Manning's' Colts and Manning's Broncos beat Brady's Patriots in the 2006, 2013, and 2015 AFC Championship games.


Finally, out of the 10 Super Bowls in which his team played in, I believe that Brady played his best Super Bowl in a game in which his team lost ...... and that is a compliment to Brady. I think that you could make an argument that Brady should have been only the second player ever to be named MVP of a Super Bowl while playing for the losing team (Chuck Howley of the Cowboys was named MVP of Super Bowl V when his Cowboys lost to the Baltimore Colts.) Perhaps Brady and Nick Foles should have been named CO-MVP's of that particular Super Bowl.


Thanks for bearing with me in my long, windbag post.

o

[apballin]

Yes I listed 4 diva ass bitches to show that great play doesn’t equate leadership. They are different things. Your defense of Leonard’s leadership is that he makes great plays. So did those 4 divas. That didn’t make them leaders and it doesn’t make Leonard one either.

You are right, he may grow into it. But that means he isn’t it now, so I’m not quite sure why you thinks it’s ridiculous to say he has issues with leadership currently.

Aren’t Taylor and Nelson great players as well? I’d say every reason you use to say Leonard is a leader can apply to those two. In that case the offense doesn’t lack leadership. Unless leadership and great play are simply two different things.

Yes 2 totally different things and leadership is earned which is why I believe Ballard kept cutting all the vets on defense because they wanted to push Leonard to be the leader on defense.

Best comparison I can use is Reggie Wayne he wasn’t drafted to be a leader but in the last few years of his career him and Mathis definitely were the leaders thru knowledge and hard work they earned the title regardless if they wanted it or not but Reggie turned out to be a hell of a leader

[rm1369]

Yes 2 totally different things and leadership is earned which is why I believe Ballard kept cutting all the vets on defense because they wanted to push Leonard to be the leader on defense.

Best comparison I can use is Reggie Wayne he wasn’t drafted to be a leader but in the last few years of his career him and Mathis definitely were the leaders thru knowledge and hard work they earned the title regardless if they wanted it or not but Reggie turned out to be a hell of a leader

One of the issues I’ve had with Ballard is that in my mind he disregarded veteran leadership. If the plan was to push Leonard into a leadership role then it makes sense why I think the team has a leadership issue. It would be great for Leonard to be a leader and it makes sense to work with him on it. But you yourself have stated it’s earned, not assigned. We mainly disagree on how it’s earned. Regardless if the team is pushing Leonard to be it they need to work with him a lot more. The interview linked on this thread and the quote I provided are simply not good leadership.

I agree 100% on Reggie. I don’t think you would ever hear quotes like these from him though.

[IndyNorm]

Really? Because of Leonard they lost? It was a team effort across the board

No, I'm saying that if he was anywhere near as good of a leader as some of you on the board think he is then he would have inspired our D to play worth a fuck, which they obviously didn't.

[IndyNorm]

The jags had 300 yards of total offense that’s hardly shitting the bed, Wentz turnovers lost that game did the defense have a great game No but 300 yards is not getting dominated

The offense scored 11 points

You realize Leonard can only do so much right

You have to consider the opponent. That was also the highest scoring game for the Jagoffs this season. Trevor Lawrence had double the meaningful TD passes in that game than he had in the previous 9 games (yes he had only 1 meaningful TD in the previous 9 games, 2 total with one when they were down by 47 to the Cheats). Shit he tied his meaningful TD passes on their first possession when they drove on our D like a hot knife through butter.

Yes, the O was horrendous, but the D shit the bed too.

[rm1369]

You have to consider the opponent. That was also the highest scoring game for the Jagoffs this season. Trevor Lawrence had double the meaningful TD passes in that game than he had in the previous 9 games (yes he had only 1 meaningful TD in the previous 9 games, 2 total with one when they were down by 47 to the Cheats). Shit he tied his meaningful TD passes on their first possession when they drove on our D like a hot knife through butter.

Yes, the O was horrendous, but the D shit the bed too.

The Jags opening drive TD really set the tone for the game. Both the O and the D were MIA that game from the start.