Poll ...... Keep Frank Reich or Fire Him

[Colts And Orioles]

o


This was albany ed's idea ...... the same albany ed who has eloquently pointed out on numerous occasions that success has many fathers, but failure is an orphan. ) :cool: ) An excellent example of that philosophy is when the Colts went for it on 4th down late in the 2nd quarter, and scored a touchdown. Even though it worked, I did not like that decision ........ and I suspect that whatever criticism that Reich is currently getting would be tenfold if the Buccaneers' defense had stopped the Colts on that 4th down play.

o

[rm1369]

o

........ and I suspect that whatever criticism that Reich is currently getting would be tenfold if the Buccaneers' defense had stopped the Colts on that 4th down play.

o


You are absolutely correct - he’d be getting killed even more. But the colts D gave up 31 points in the last 6 possessions by TB. I think Frank has to be aggressive offensively because, unless aided by weather, the D is going to fall apart. It happens pretty damn consistently.

[Spike]

No brainer, keep Frank Reich.

[Colts And Orioles]

You are absolutely correct - he’d be getting killed even more. But the Colts' D gave up 31 points in the last 6 possessions by TB. I think Frank has to be aggressive offensively because, unless aided by weather, the D is going to fall apart. It happens pretty damn consistently.




o


How much more aggressive can Reich be than going for it on 4th and goal the from opponents' 4 yard-line with less than 2 minutes to play in the first half ??? Or by calling for a pass on 27 consecutive plays from scrimmage, including the times in which Wentz scrambled out of the pocket to run and/or fumbled the ball when he was sacked ???

I understand what you are saying about trying to overcompensate for the defense, and the first thing that comes to mind is when Dan Marino had to try and out-gun his awful Dolphins defense between 1986 and 1989 ...... but if the offense turns the ball over 3 or 4 times in a game, there really isn't much that the offense can do to compensate for its own failures. The defense was put into bad a bad position by the offense (and the special teams) on numerous occasions when they turned the ball over on multiple occasions throughout the Buccaneers game, turnovers that shifted the momentum of the game greatly.

o

[Oldcolt]

Isn't a person alive I agree 100% with, including myself (I do change my mind). I have disagreed with him on quite a lot of things. Don't like going away from the run is number one. I am not crazy about all this going for it on 4th all the time. Yet this man has the qualities that are rare in a human being. He is honest, cares about people as people and is definitely someone I can root for. Who else would you bring in? We have been drafting for 4 years (don't count the first) with what Reich/Ballard both have in mind. We have a QB that needs Reich to be successful (at least I wouldn't want to chance it with another coach). Reich stays. We have gotten away from our identity a little, I expect that to change in the next run of games. Who knows what this year will bring if we do, could be a Lombardi!!!

[ChoppedWood]

Isn't a person alive I agree 100% with, including myself (I do change my mind). I have disagreed with him on quite a lot of things. Don't like going away from the run is number one. I am not crazy about all this going for it on 4th all the time. Yet this man has the qualities that are rare in a human being. He is honest, cares about people as people and is definitely someone I can root for. Who else would you bring in? We have been drafting for 4 years (don't count the first) with what Reich/Ballard both have in mind. We have a QB that needs Reich to be successful (at least I wouldn't want to chance it with another coach). Reich stays. We have gotten away from our identity a little, I expect that to change in the next run of games. Who knows what this year will bring if we do, could be a Lombardi!!!

But isn't the problem that our identity has become HIM? I don't know that he has the aptitude to revert back to something else. We'll see I suppose.

[rm1369]

o


How much more aggressive can Reich be than going for it on 4th and goal the from opponents' 4 yard-line with less than 2 minutes to play in the first half ??? Or by calling for a pass on 27 consecutive plays from scrimmage, including the times in which Wentz scrambled out of the pocket to run and/or fumbled the ball when he was sacked ???

I understand what you are saying about trying to overcompensate for the defense, and the first thing that comes to mind is when Dan Marino had to try and out-gun his awful Dolphins defense between 1986 and 1989 ...... but if the offense turns the ball over 3 or 4 times in a game, there really isn't much that the offense can do to compensate for its own failures. The defense was put into bad a bad position by the offense (and the special teams) on numerous occasions when they turned the ball over on multiple occasions throughout the Buccaneers game, turnovers that shifted the momentum of the game greatly.

o

I’m not suggesting he needs to be more aggressive, I’m saying it is very likely a big factor in his decision making. And one that I agree with.

I see two issues with your argument. One is that you are putting the turnovers on Franks play calling. I definitely disagree. The sack / fumble maybe. I don’t really agree, but ok. Pascals fumble? Hines fumble? The first interception? No I don’t think there was anything wrong with those play calls. It was all execution.

The second issue is you are wrong on the offense putting the defense in holes in the TB game. I’ve posted it, but go look at the drive lengths in the TB touchdowns. There are no 30 yd TD drives. No 40 yarders. No 50 yarders. The shortest one was 65 yards - 10 yards less than a touchback. Against Baltimore the shortest TD drive was 68 yds. It’s just an inaccurate statement.

I just still find it strange that the Colts rank as one of the top offenses and a mediocre / bad defense (except takeaways), yet everyone wants to put the failures on the offensive play calling.

[ChoppedWood]

I’m not suggesting he needs to be more aggressive, I’m saying it is very likely a big factor in his decision making. And one that I agree with.

I see two issues with your argument. One is that you are putting the turnovers on Franks play calling. I definitely disagree. The sack / fumble maybe. I don’t really agree, but ok. Pascals fumble? Hines fumble? The first interception? No I don’t think there was anything wrong with those play calls. It was all execution.

The second issue is you are wrong on the offense putting the defense in holes in the TB game. I’ve posted it, but go look at the drive lengths in the TB touchdowns. There are no 30 yd TD drives. No 40 yarders. No 50 yarders. The shortest one was 65 yards - 10 yards less than a touchback. Against Baltimore the shortest TD drive was 68 yds. It’s just an inaccurate statement.

I just still find it strange that the Colts rank as one of the top offenses and a mediocre / bad defense (except takeaways), yet everyone wants to put the failures on the offensive play calling.

This is a good post, and your last statement is exactly why I voted FIRE in the poll, and I realize I will be joined by few if any.

Your post is spot on, routinely this defense gives up sustained drive after sustained drive, and it actually seems as though the plan is as simple as "Darius go make a play". This isn't a this year / injuries / thing. This is a consistent pattern that happens essentially every single game. Yet, what do we do, the same damn thing we do - soft zone, huge bubble in the middle of the field with a blitz maybe like 3 times a game. At some point- as the HC, it's your job to say enough, that has to stop. And yes, I am aware Ebersuck wasn't brought here by Frank, doesn't matter, at this point he is held accountable as the HC of this team and if he wasn't satisfied with this he would have made a change or at least told Ballard to stand on his guy and do something different.

[Colts And Orioles]

I’m not suggesting he needs to be more aggressive, I’m saying it is very likely a big factor in his decision making. And one that I agree with.

I see two issues with your argument. One is that you are putting the turnovers on Franks play calling. I definitely disagree. The sack / fumble maybe. I don’t really agree, but ok. Pascals fumble? Hines fumble? The first interception? No I don’t think there was anything wrong with those play calls. It was all execution.

The second issue is you are wrong on the offense putting the defense in holes in the TB game. I’ve posted it, but go look at the drive lengths in the TB touchdowns. There are no 30 yd TD drives. No 40 yarders. No 50 yarders. The shortest one was 65 yards - 10 yards less than a touchback. Against Baltimore the shortest TD drive was 68 yds. It’s just an inaccurate statement.

I just still find it strange that the Colts rank as one of the top offenses and a mediocre / bad defense (except takeaways), yet everyone wants to put the failures on the offensive play calling.




o


I am not putting the turnovers on Frank's play-calling. I don't know where you got that idea. I am putting the turnovers on the players (both on offense and the special teams.) My critique was of the turnovers themselves, not that of Reich's play-calling. You said that Frank needs to be aggressive on offense, and I pointed out that Reich was about as aggressive as he could be on offense ..... although, I admittedly misunderstood you when I thought that you were suggesting that he be more aggressive than he already was.

Regarding the turnovers, your point is taken as to where they turned the ball over on the field, but any kind of turnover almost always affects the position that the defense is put in. The first is the obvious ...... turning the ball over deep in your own territory immediately puts the opponent in chip-shot field goal range and/or touchdown range. But even if you turn the ball over while you are deep in your opponents' territory, that affects the defense too in that it takes sure points off of the board. It doesn't affect the defense as much as turning it over deep in your own territory, but the score of the game does affect not only the defense, but the team overall ...... the other side of that same coin would be in some of the years in which Peyton Manning played, when he and the Colts' offense would get an early lead that would allow Freeney, Mathis, and company to tee off on the opposing offenses. The cushion/lead that the team had allowed the defense to take more chances and be more aggressive. The defense needs to be judged on its play first and foremost, but the score of the game (including taking sure points off of the board by turning the ball over when you have at least a field goal in your pocket) affects the defense also, albeit to a lesser degree.


So perhaps we are more in agreement than I initially thought in the first place, or as you thought so in the second place.

o

[rm1369]

o

So perhaps we are more in agreement than I initially thought in the first place, or as you thought so in the second place.

o

Yeah, sorry - sounds like I misunderstood your statements.

[HoosierinFL]

I get very and repeatedly frustrated with Reich, but I am not close to advocating firing him. I think he brings a lot of positives to this team as well, and I don't even have the remotest idea who else could come in and be expected to be an improvement.

[Thorgrim]

I get very and repeatedly frustrated with Reich, but I am not close to advocating firing him. I think he brings a lot of positives to this team as well, and I don't even have the remotest idea who else could come in and be expected to be an improvement.

The devil you know

[rm1369]

This is a good post, and your last statement is exactly why I voted FIRE in the poll, and I realize I will be joined by few if any.

Your post is spot on, routinely this defense gives up sustained drive after sustained drive, and it actually seems as though the plan is as simple as "Darius go make a play". This isn't a this year / injuries / thing. This is a consistent pattern that happens essentially every single game. Yet, what do we do, the same damn thing we do - soft zone, huge bubble in the middle of the field with a blitz maybe like 3 times a game. At some point- as the HC, it's your job to say enough, that has to stop. And yes, I am aware Ebersuck wasn't brought here by Frank, doesn't matter, at this point he is held accountable as the HC of this team and if he wasn't satisfied with this he would have made a change or at least told Ballard to stand on his guy and do something different.


For me this is a Ballard issue and not a Reich one. Not because he hired Eberflus, but because of the makeup of the roster. Look at the career production levels of this teams DEs. That is where the majority of the pass rush pressure should come from in this defense. I’m sorry, you can’t coach to correct that. Especially when you are lacking at CB because of talent issues and Safety because of injury. Forcing teams to slowly and methodically move down the field instead of giving up huge plays is likely preferable as it leaves a better chance they will error or the D can create a turnover (the one thing they are good at). But either way, suggesting the D should be able to be good if the coach just schemed better is unrealistic when the talent deficiencies are so obvious and glaring, IMO. I’m not a fan of Eberflus’ scheme, but he has to have players to run it. That’s on Ballard.

[JAFF]

o


This was albany ed's idea ...... the same albany ed who has eloquently pointed out on numerous occasions that success has many fathers, but failure is an orphan. ) :cool: ) An excellent example of that philosophy is when the Colts went for it on 4th down late in the 2nd quarter, and scored a touchdown. Even though it worked, I did not like that decision ........ and I suspect that whatever criticism that Reich is currently getting would be tenfold if the Buccaneers' defense had stopped the Colts on that 4th down play.

o

I miss ed

[ChoppedWood]

For me this is a Ballard issue and not a Reich one. Not because he hired Eberflus, but because of the makeup of the roster. Look at the career production levels of this teams DEs. That is where the majority of the pass rush pressure should come from in this defense. I’m sorry, you can’t coach to correct that. Especially when you are lacking at CB because of talent issues and Safety because of injury. Forcing teams to slowly and methodically move down the field instead of giving up huge plays is likely preferable as it leaves a better chance they will error or the D can create a turnover (the one thing they are good at). But either way, suggesting the D should be able to be good if the coach just schemed better is unrealistic when the talent deficiencies are so obvious and glaring, IMO. I’m not a fan of Eberflus’ scheme, but he has to have players to run it. That’s on Ballard.

DE's, yep, Ballard has crapped the bed. However, we do have an all-world DT, and All-universe LB, and an at least All-North America 1st team all star in the slot. So we have talent.

I don't know. Listening to Venturi, there's a lot more here than just not having the right guys at DE to make this work. Listening to him, this scheme is straight out of high school and any decent QB will just devour it- which seems to prove true. Again, year over year, the completion percentages are absolutely absurd. We create "historical" days for QB's all the time. That has to transcend the DE position. Bending but not breaking due to personnel / injuries, yeah I can see some of that. Allowing 75%+ completion percentages... nah there's more to it.

[rm1369]

DE's, yep, Ballard has crapped the bed. However, we do have an all-world DT, and All-universe LB, and an at least All-North America 1st team all star in the slot. So we have talent.

I don't know. Listening to Venturi, there's a lot more here than just not having the right guys at DE to make this work. Listening to him, this scheme is straight out of high school and any decent QB will just devour it- which seems to prove true. Again, year over year, the completion percentages are absolutely absurd. We create "historical" days for QB's all the time. That has to transcend the DE position. Bending but not breaking due to personnel / injuries, yeah I can see some of that. Allowing 75%+ completion percentages... nah there's more to it.

I am not a fan of the scheme. I wasn’t thrilled with the hire when it was made and was critical of some of the vet cuts that were made during the transition. It is a relatively “simple” defense by design though. Something Ballard has commented on as a positive. One that is supposed to then allow defensive players to play fast. Hence the emphasis on athletic measurables. And one that allows young players to pick it up quickly. That fits Ballard’s emphasis on the draft. Agree or disagree on the supposed advantages, but let’s be clear who’s decision all of that was. It was 100% Ballard’s. Not Reich’s. And in the middle of a season with rookie DEs as your main hope, and street free agents in the secondary is not the time to change all of that.

[ChaosTheory]

DE's, yep, Ballard has crapped the bed. However, we do have an all-world DT, and All-universe LB, and an at least All-North America 1st team all star in the slot. So we have talent.

I don't know. Listening to Venturi, there's a lot more here than just not having the right guys at DE to make this work. Listening to him, this scheme is straight out of high school and any decent QB will just devour it- which seems to prove true. Again, year over year, the completion percentages are absolutely absurd. We create "historical" days for QB's all the time. That has to transcend the DE position. Bending but not breaking due to personnel / injuries, yeah I can see some of that. Allowing 75%+ completion percentages... nah there's more to it.

I've wondered if the evolution of the passing game, rule changes, and the Air Raid football that kids are running as early as junior high now makes this style of defense antiquated.

I get the idea of preventing the big play by allowing short stuff and this creates more opportunities for the front four to get home or for the offense to make a mistake and kill a drive.

Well, these kids are growing up with 7-on-7 their whole lives and pitch-and-catch is easier for more QB's than it used to be. And the great QB's don't miss.

So that leaves disruption through pressure, which we just don't do consistently. Paye and Dayo are young, but Lewis, Banogu, and Turay haven't lived up. Plus we miss Autry. Hard for Buckner not to get double and triple teamed.

We know the teams that have succeeded with this broad philosophy. Dungy's Bucs, Lovie's Bears, even the post-season runs of the Giants, etc. They had players all over for sure, but specifically they had some motherfuckers on the D-line.

Do we need that level of personnel in order for the system to work? I don't know. Are there examples out there?

[Puck]

I deleted my message because ONLY one wanted Frank Fired

Give it up Chopped. Aint happing nor should it

You don't agree with him. WE GET IT. but he is the coach. He's not getting fired. He's not resigning, he's not giving up play calling.

BUT!!!!!!!! Get in the playoffs and I give the Colts as much chance as anyone to make it to the SB. There is not one team we can't beat.

I want the Titans in the first round.

Chopped....... Is there any team we can't beat in the AFC playoffs?

Hate to (not really)see you eat your words when they advance.

Just sayin.

[Oldcolt]

We have to learn how to win games. So far not so good, at least against the big boys.

[nate505]

I was on the fire him bandwagon after the second Titans game, but not as much anymore.

I still hate his over reliance on the pass though.

[njcoltfan]

DE's, yep, Ballard has crapped the bed. However, we do have an all-world DT, and All-universe LB, and an at least All-North America 1st team all star in the slot. So we have talent.

I don't know. Listening to Venturi, there's a lot more here than just not having the right guys at DE to make this work. Listening to him, this scheme is straight out of high school and any decent QB will just devour it- which seems to prove true. Again, year over year, the completion percentages are absolutely absurd. We create "historical" days for QB's all the time. That has to transcend the DE position. Bending but not breaking due to personnel / injuries, yeah I can see some of that. Allowing 75%+ completion percentages... nah there's more to it.

Did I miss the day that Venturi was inducted into the HOF as a coach ?? If I remember correctly, he was a TERRIBLE coach, sour grapes !!

[ChoppedWood]

I deleted my message because ONLY one wanted Frank Fired

Give it up Chopped. Aint happing nor should it

You don't agree with him. WE GET IT. but he is the coach. He's not getting fired. He's not resigning, he's not giving up play calling.

BUT!!!!!!!! Get in the playoffs and I give the Colts as much chance as anyone to make it to the SB. There is not one team we can't beat.

I want the Titans in the first round.

Chopped....... Is there any team we can't beat in the AFC playoffs?

Hate to (not really)see you eat your words when they advance.

Just sayin.

No, I don't think there's a single team we can't beat, a team we can't destroy even, AFC or NFC IMO. That's my whole issue! We shouldn't be a 6-6 team on playoff life support right now. There's too much potential here even with all the injuries.

If we lay an egg against Texans or if NE kicks our ass, keep this poll open and see what the results look like.

[Hoopsdoc]

The only ones who want Frank fired are the ones who don’t understand football.

This team is pretty darned good on offense and has a decent shot at making the playoffs, which is all anyone can ask. And that would be the 3rd time in 4 years, with 3 different quarterbacks.

Ballard has rightly opened himself up to criticism with the defensive end situation, but at some point you have to see what the young guys can do. Guys like Lewis and Turay need to play, not sit behind Justin Houston and Autry.

He gambled somewhat and it hasn’t worked out, but you can see his logic.

[Oldcolt]

Hoopsdoc I love your points about the defensive ends and the quarterback. Both will take a year or more to reach their potential. I would add that losing both Hilton (he isn't the same receiver he used to be) and Campbell have really hampered our passing attack. I have a fan's hope that Campbell can return in time to make a difference with his speed in the playoffs (assuming we make it).

[JAFF]

Here is what I need to see tomorrow. The best weapon on the Colts getting more than 8 touches in three quarters.

Go empty backfield and flex him out as a receiver. Screen pass, wheel routes, bunch formation with TY and Pittman.

Run the lonesome polecat, but find a way to get the best player the ball.

[Chaka]

No, I don't think there's a single team we can't beat, a team we can't destroy even, AFC or NFC IMO. That's my whole issue! We shouldn't be a 6-6 team on playoff life support right now. There's too much potential here even with all the injuries.

If we lay an egg against Texans or if NE kicks our ass, keep this poll open and see what the results look like.

Yes, we should have a better record but things haven't worked out for us as well as they could have so far. Sometimes that's prone to happening in a sport where teams only play 16 (now 17) games a season. A few unlucky breaks and your record can get distorted. But Reich isn't getting fired - he just signed a five year extension this last offseason!

I don't mean to suggest that Reich is infallible or perfect, or that the Colts are merely the victim of bad luck. Certainly mistakes have been made. But the offense is plenty good enough and the decision to pass 26 or 27 times (which is a bit unfair as 6 or 7 of those were run pass options which Wentz chose to pass on) was driven by circumstances and, absent turnovers, was working just fine. That's just a fact. And who's to say that the Colts wouldn't have fumbled the ball on the run plays that everyone thinks they should have called? It's easy to fantasize that everything would have been different had the Colts called more run plays, but that's just...a fantasy. Maybe those run plays would been stonewalled, in which case everyone would be complaining that Reich should have stayed with the pass because it was working so well to that point.

Anyway, Reich is always going to generate some friction because he takes a lot of chances, and when it doesn't work out it can look pretty bad (i.e., the first few games this season). Someone posted a stat on twitter a few days ago which measured each coach's relative 4th down success - not just their percentage success rate, but their rate of success relative to their EXPECTED chance of success in each circumstance (i.e. 4th and 10 had a much lower chance of success than 4th and 1). And Reich was the 3rd or 4th most successful in the league if I recall, so he's not a bad gambler even if we cringe sometimes at these decisions.

The Colts lost the TB game mainly because of uncharacteristic turnovers. The defense had its failures certainly, but the turnovers were the backbreakers as the Colts lost the opportunity to score more points while simultaneously giving TB more time to catch up. Yet the game was still close.

[Swing4DaFences]

Keep him.

[Chromeburn]

I don’t want to fire him. We could do worse looking around the league, we have had worse. I bet he would get scooped up fast. I am starting to question if this team has a killer instinct. We will see with the pats game. Pats usually play their best football after thanksgiving. If we fold against them or they beat us up, then I will say something is missing. If we hang or beat them, then I will see that as a sign we are in our SB window.

[omahacolt]

reich is a good coach. i don't know what is out there that would be an upgrade

[Puck]

https://twitter.com/zkeefer/status/1466457068358049803?s=20


Zak Keefer
@zkeefer
Colts' Darius Leonard on his team's inability to close out tight games (so far, they're 1-4 in one-score games):

"There is absolutely no way you win a ballgame with 5 turnovers and 2 PIs. No schemes (we need to change). We need to avoid turning the ball over and penalties."
12:19 PM · Dec 2, 2021·Twitter Web App

[ukcolt]

I didn't see the Pats Bills game last night, but i can't envisage Reich being able to contain himself to the point of only throwing the ball 3 times in a quarter, let alone an entire game.

[Chromeburn]

This poll is a good example of the loudest voices don't necessarily reflect the majority's opinion.

[Spike]

This poll is a good example of the loudest voices don't necessarily reflect the majority's opinion.

Hell of a great post. Wish I could thank this 1000 times.

[Voosh]

I think a lot of the Fire Reich sentiments are knee jerk reactions on game days. If we don't make the playoffs this year I'll be looking forward to next season and hoping year 2 of Wentz and an established offense doesn't lead to another slow start.

[Colts And Orioles]

o


Of these 4 commentators, one vouches for Frank Reich, one vouches for Mike Vrabel, and one vouches for Matt LaFleur ...... the 4th says that the race is wide-open, and talks about the possibilities of Mike McCarthy and Zac Taylor.



Who Should Win '2021 Coach of the Year? 'GMFB' Weighs In

https://www.nfl.com/videos/who-should-win-21-coach-of-the-year-gmfb-weighs-in

o

[Spike]

o


Of these 4 commentators, one vouches for Frank Reich, one vouches for Mike Vrabel, and one vouches for Matt LaFleur ...... the 4th says that the race is wide-open, and talks about the possibilities of Mike McCarthy and Zac Taylor.



Who Should Win '2021 Coach of the Year? 'GMFB' Weighs In

https://www.nfl.com/videos/who-should-win-21-coach-of-the-year-gmfb-weighs-in

o

Just my rat's ass of an opinion, but McCarthy sucks. LaFleur has Aaron Rodgers. So I would discount those 2. Vrabel is an asshole, so I would discount him too. Zac Taylor is fine. But what I have seen with Reich this year, he definitely deserves major consideration.

[Discflinger]

Hard Knocks may help his cause.

[Hoopsdoc]

This thread looks dumber by the week.

[JAFF]

This thread looks dumber by the week.

Assuming an thread in here is “smart”, is a stretch

[Colts And Orioles]

Keep him.




o


10 posts in 3 years ??? Would you please shut the fuck up already, you windbag ???

o