View Full Version : It’s really simple, and if you don’t understand…
Kray007
11-29-2021, 11:08 PM
For the first 3 quarters, the Bucs stacked 8 men in the box, and Wentz threw. In the 4th Quarter, they dropped 5 into coverage, leaving only 6 in the box, and Wentz started handing the ball to Taylor.
If you want to know if the decision to throw was the right one, all you have to do is look at the fact that, in crunch time, with the game on the line, the Bucs did something they swore they wouldn’t do…they quit concentrating on stopping Taylor. They decided that, if they didn’t change up the gameplan, Wentz was going to beat them with his arm.
The loss stings, but going forward, it helps Taylor. You know that coaches like Belichick will be studying this game, and they’re all gonna see the same thing…you can’t beat the Colts by stacking the box and stuffing the run.
Colts And Orioles
11-30-2021, 01:02 AM
o
Sunday's loss will sting less if we beat the Patriots, particularly because they are an AFC team (unlike the Buccaneers.)
The win over the Bills made the losses to the Ravens and the Titans sting a little less ...... let's do it again.
o
Butter
11-30-2021, 03:26 AM
This is dumb, just like not running at all for that long in the game. Just dumb when it is the strength of the team. Not being run heavy and going with what the D gives is one thing, but come the fuck on.
Spike
11-30-2021, 04:07 AM
This is dumb, just like not running at all for that long in the game. Just dumb when it is the strength of the team. Not being run heavy and going with what the D gives is one thing, but come the fuck on.
Yep!!!!!!!!!!!!!
nate505
11-30-2021, 11:44 AM
For the first 3 quarters, the Bucs stacked 8 men in the box, and Wentz threw. In the 4th Quarter, they dropped 5 into coverage, leaving only 6 in the box, and Wentz started handing the ball to Taylor.
If you want to know if the decision to throw was the right one, all you have to do is look at the fact that, in crunch time, with the game on the line, the Bucs did something they swore they wouldn’t do…they quit concentrating on stopping Taylor. They decided that, if they didn’t change up the gameplan, Wentz was going to beat them with his arm.
The loss stings, but going forward, it helps Taylor. You know that coaches like Belichick will be studying this game, and they’re all gonna see the same thing…you can’t beat the Colts by stacking the box and stuffing the run.
So with the game on the line...the Bucs go back to dropping guys in coverage, only to see Taylor gash them, because they thought Wentz was going to beat them with his arm.
If that was the strategy it was a dumb one. They had much better success stacking the box and letting the Colts become one dimensional. Like the Colts literally didn't score at all in the 2nd half other than Taylor's TD at the end when they were using the above strategy. And the Colts really didn't score when they were passing the ball 25 times in a row. Yes, the Bucs couldn't just rely on getting turnover after turnover (even though they did), but they definitely could rely on getting pressure on Wentz, which they did over and over and over in the 2nd half.
Like the only good thing about that strategy was the Colts burned some time off the clock, I guess. It definitely wasn't good for any other reason.
Kray007
11-30-2021, 01:37 PM
This is dumb, just like not running at all for that long in the game. Just dumb when it is the strength of the team. Not being run heavy and going with what the D gives is one thing, but come the fuck on.
The Bucs have a great D, and with 8 in the box, they can stop anybody from running. They stopped Taylor cold in the 1st Quarter, holding him to 2 yards. If you stick with pounding the rock, you’re gonna end up with 40 yards on the ground, and lose by 20 points.
For anyone who argues that abandoning the run led to the loss, I have one response. Post hoc ergo procter hoc. It’s a classical logical fallacy. You might as well argue that they lost because they wore throwback uniforms
Kray007
11-30-2021, 01:44 PM
So with the game on the line...the Bucs go back to dropping guys in coverage, only to see Taylor gash them, because they thought Wentz was going to beat them with his arm.
If that was the strategy it was a dumb one. They had much better success stacking the box and letting the Colts become one dimensional. Like the Colts literally didn't score at all in the 2nd half other than Taylor's TD at the end when they were using the above strategy. And the Colts really didn't score when they were passing the ball 25 times in a row. Yes, the Bucs couldn't just rely on getting turnover after turnover (even though they did), but they definitely could rely on getting pressure on Wentz, which they did over and over and over in the 2nd half.
Like the only good thing about that strategy was the Colts burned some time off the clock, I guess. It definitely wasn't good for any other reason.
Well, first of all, they TD to end the 1st half came in the midst of that 25 play streak. And…
The Colts were moving the ball, virtually, at will the entire 3rd quarter. One drive ended on a fluke play, and the other ended at the Bucs 5 after Winfield shoved Pittman.
ChoppedWood
11-30-2021, 01:56 PM
Buffalo entered the Colts game with the # 1 D in the league. They went with plenty of stacked box. They left with 236 on their head. Yeah I have heard the comments that their D was somewhat of a paper tiger due to their schedule. Fine. They were still the top dog in the AFC many picking to win the SB, we demolished them by imposing our will and playing OUR game.
26 straight passes, DGAF who it is against, is going to end up costing you at some point, and it did. 1 FL and 1 INT. Both huge momentum plays that went against us.
Sorry, but with this OL and with JT, at some point you have an obligation to give him a few touches in that span just to keep them honest.
Frank Reich is an abysmal game manager. He's proven it over and over again.
CletusPyle
11-30-2021, 02:33 PM
I'll probably get hammered for saying this, but have the Colts in Indy really ever had a great coach? I know people say Dungy was great, but only getting one championship while having Peyton Manning in his prime for 7 seasons tarnishes his legacy in my opinion. I'd say they might have had a great coach for one season, but let Arians go when Chuck Pagano recovered.
When you compare Reich to the previous coaches with the Colts since they moved to Indy, he may be the second best behind Dungy, and If he can win a couple of Super Bowls before he is replaced or retires, he might end up being the best! But he does make some real bonehead calls at times, but I think he has more upside than downside! I like him and I do believe this team is poised to go to the next level over the next 5 years!
All I know is that if the Bucs did that to Manning he would have thrown again and again.
Turnovers are the reason we lost. the Bucs scored 24 points off of turn overs. Otherwise the D kept them pretty much in check and we were moving the ball at will.
Colts And Orioles
11-30-2021, 03:20 PM
I'll probably get hammered for saying this, but have the Colts in Indinapolis (1984 - Present) really ever had a great coach ?? I know that people say Dungy was great, but only getting one championship while having Peyton Manning in his prime for 7 seasons tarnishes his legacy, in my opinion. I'd say they might have had a great coach for one season, but let Arians go when Chuck Pagano recovered.
When you compare Reich to the previous coaches with the Colts since they moved to Indy in March of 1984, he may be the second-best behind Dungy, and if he can win a couple of Super Bowls before he is replaced or retires, he might end up being the best !!! He does make some real bone-headed calls at times, but I think that he has more upside than downside !!! I like him, and I do believe that this team is poised to go to the next level over the next 5 years !!!
o
One of the first things that I think of about Dungy coaching the Colts was when he allowed Peyton Manning to overrule him in a playoff game ...... during the game.
In the 2005 divisional playoff loss to the Steelers, the Colts were down by a score of 21-3 with the 4th quarter about to start. Tony Dungy told the punt team to take the field. Realizing that that would have essentially been conceding the game, Manning defied Dungy and told the punt team to get the hell off of the field. Dungy simply raised his eyebrows, nodded his head in agreement, and said, "OK." The Colts went for it on 4th and 2, got the first down, and proceeded to score a touchdown on that drive to cut the lead to a manageable 21-10.
Dungy allowed one of his players to veto his decision in a nationally-televised playoff game with tens of millions of viewers watching ...... THAT is an example of being a great coach.
o
TheMugwump
11-30-2021, 03:49 PM
All I know is that if the Bucs did that to Manning he would have thrown again and again.
Turnovers are the reason we lost. the Bucs scored 24 points off of turn overs. Otherwise the D kept them pretty much in check and we were moving the ball at will.
September 26, 2004 (https://www.espn.com/nfl/playbyplay/_/gameId/240926011). I remember it clearly since it was the last game I saw in Indy as of this writing. Colts started the game against the Packers with 22 straight passes with the Packers stacking the line against Edge. Of course Carson Wentz is no Peyton Manning, but I don't remember anyone banging on Dungy because Peyton checked out of runs based on what he saw on the defense, just like Wentz did multiple times on Sunday.
Of course Indy won that game 45 - 31, so criticism was low.
As AlbanyEd is fond of saying, success has a thousand fathers and failure is an orphan.
rcubed
11-30-2021, 03:56 PM
I'll probably get hammered for saying this, but have the Colts in Indy really ever had a great coach? I know people say Dungy was great, but only getting one championship while having Peyton Manning in his prime for 7 seasons tarnishes his legacy in my opinion. I'd say they might have had a great coach for one season, but let Arians go when Chuck Pagano recovered.
When you compare Reich to the previous coaches with the Colts since they moved to Indy, he may be the second best behind Dungy, and If he can win a couple of Super Bowls before he is replaced or retires, he might end up being the best! But he does make some real bonehead calls at times, but I think he has more upside than downside! I like him and I do believe this team is poised to go to the next level over the next 5 years!
but honestly how many truly great coaches have there been in the NFL? and how many at any one given time?
I mean look at the current coaches. Who is great?
Belichick (but tainted with cheating)
Reid (many considered him good but not great until he won in KC)
Payton? Tomlin?
then you have a bunch of good or up an coming coaches.
Reich has some head scratching moments but I still think he is in the upper echelon of current coaches.
For the first 3 quarters, the Bucs stacked 8 men in the box, and Wentz threw. In the 4th Quarter, they dropped 5 into coverage, leaving only 6 in the box, and Wentz started handing the ball to Taylor.
If you want to know if the decision to throw was the right one, all you have to do is look at the fact that, in crunch time, with the game on the line, the Bucs did something they swore they wouldn’t do…they quit concentrating on stopping Taylor. They decided that, if they didn’t change up the gameplan, Wentz was going to beat them with his arm.
The loss stings, but going forward, it helps Taylor. You know that coaches like Belichick will be studying this game, and they’re all gonna see the same thing…you can’t beat the Colts by stacking the box and stuffing the run.
So they stack the box. Go double tight double wide and got get 3.5 yards. Then run backside play action
o
One of the first things that I think of about Dungy coaching the Colts was when he allowed Peyton Manning to overrule him in a playoff game ...... during the game.
In the 2005 divisional playoff loss to the Steelers, the Colts were down by a score of 21-3 with the 4th quarter about to start. Tony Dungy told the punt team to take the field. Realizing that that would have essentially been conceding the game, Manning defied Dungy and told the punt team to get the hell off of the field. Dungy simply raised his eyebrows, nodded his head in agreement, and said, "OK." The Colts went for it on 4th and 2, got the first down, and proceeded to score a touchdown on that drive to cut the lead to a manageable 21-10.
Dungy allowed one of his players to veto his decision in a nationally-televised playoff game with tens of millions of viewers watching ...... THAT is an example of being a great coach.
o
Thats a HOF coach trusting a HOF Qb. Not exactly what we have here
September 26, 2004 (https://www.espn.com/nfl/playbyplay/_/gameId/240926011). I remember it clearly since it was the last game I saw in Indy as of this writing. Colts started the game against the Packers with 22 straight passes with the Packers stacking the line against Edge. Of course Carson Wentz is no Peyton Manning, but I don't remember anyone banging on Dungy because Peyton checked out of runs based on what he saw on the defense, just like Wentz did multiple times on Sunday.
Of course Indy won that game 45 - 31, so criticism was low.
As AlbanyEd is fond of saying, success has a thousand fathers and failure is an orphan.
Crazy how everyone on here dismissed these FACTS.
Peyton and Eli have said the same on his MNF show. Make the defense change or keep attacking
Some on here do not want to acknowledge that the Bucs had no answer for our passing attack!!!!! It was the turnovers that saved their ass!!!
Carson Wentz was ON!!!!
Oldcolt
11-30-2021, 07:07 PM
Some on here do not want to acknowledge that the Bucs had no answer for our passing attack!!!!! It was the turnovers that saved their ass!!!
Carson Wentz was ON!!!!
Great point. Even greater point is we did it your way and lost, more than once this year. Doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results is...well we know what it is-a loss.
Great point. Even greater point is we did it your way and lost, more than once this year. Doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results is...well we know what it is-a loss.
My way????
Oldcolt
11-30-2021, 07:38 PM
I so apologize. The way you are supporting
I so apologize. The way you are supporting
No idea what you are saying. Talk to me like I'm 5 yrs old
ChaosTheory
11-30-2021, 07:48 PM
So they stack the box. Go double tight double wide and got get 3.5 yards. Then run backside play action
Yeah, we possibly could have done that. But what incentive do they have to do that when they're dropping 21 in the 2qtr? And then marching down the field into TB's red zone coming out of halftime?
Frank Reich did not stop calling run plays against Buffalo because we were killing them in Nickel without Edmunds.
And he wasn't going to stop calling pass plays because we were killing TB.
5 turnovers and we were the third team to score 30 on TB. If we were going three-and-out and banging our heads against a wall, I'd criticize the play-calling more. But I don't want him calling plays based on being scared that Eric Fisher is going to allow a strip-sack.
Apparently a lot of guys do want him calling scared.
Oldcolt
11-30-2021, 08:48 PM
You seem to think that since Wentz was on fire we did the correct thing in keeping passing. Maybe you were being sarcastic and I totally missed it. My point was that going with the guy on fire got us a loss. I don't believe Wentz is good enough to carry a team like he is being asked or wants to, whatever is the case. I think we need to not pass 20 some odd times in a row, no matter how hot the qb is. The team has no identity.
Yes JT is our bell cow. But Carson is a damn good QB. Play to the strengths?
Carson was the strength this game. To not know that is stupid The Bucs could not stop him. only turn overs stopped the Colts
Bitch at Hines and Pascal. Otherwise we win by 14 going away!
Oldcolt
11-30-2021, 10:44 PM
Puck I agree with you that if you qb is having a hot game you need to ride him more. I just think that we need to run the ball way more than we did if we want to be effective long term. Throwing like 26 times in a row isn't riding the hot hand. It is a whole new game plan. Lawrence Owen has a link to a podcast with D'Qwell Jackson on this site. He and Edge make the same point I am trying to make but do it much clearer and with more nuance than I do. We need to be more balanced. And it is not just about this game, it is about how the whole season has gone. When things get difficult we just do not have an identity to fall back on.
ChoppedWood
11-30-2021, 11:37 PM
Puck I agree with you that if you qb is having a hot game you need to ride him more. I just think that we need to run the ball way more than we did if we want to be effective long term. Throwing like 26 times in a row isn't riding the hot hand. It is a whole new game plan. Lawrence Owen has a link to a podcast with D'Qwell Jackson on this site. He and Edge make the same point I am trying to make but do it much clearer and with more nuance than I do. We need to be more balanced. And it is not just about this game, it is about how the whole season has gone. When things get difficult we just do not have an identity to fall back on.
Oh I think there is an identity to this team. That identity is one of a megalomaniac smart guy that is dead set on proving he can beat teams with his play calling. It's costing us games over and over. But, ehhh, he's a really nice guy and good with the media so....
There is not one team in the league that could have beat the Colts last Sunday without turnovers.
I love JT. While many of you hated the pick I loved it.
So many of you want the offense to be one dimensional.... run the shit of of JT
BUT. there are other weapons on this team..... Like Wentz..... This kid is for real!!!!
So why are some of you wanting the offense to be a one dimensional??
Why is it that Wentz that is tearing it up But JT's 2 yards per attempt is the answer?
I'd take this offense against any team in the NFL
rm1369
11-30-2021, 11:50 PM
Lost in all the debate about Reich is what I see as the true issue with this team. Here are the last 7 possession for TB:
TD (84 yd drive)
Kneel down - end of half
TD (65 yd drive)
TD (65 yd drive)
Punt - fumbled by Hines
FG (13 yds - off the fumble)
TD (75 yd drive)
Last 4 against Baltimore:
TD (75 yd drive)
TD (78 yd drive)
TD (75 yd drive)
TD (68 yd drive)
Yet I’m expected to believe the issue with this team is that Reich didn’t sprinkle in a few more runs? I’m sorry that’s BS. The Colts two best wins of the season were SF and Buffalo. One common theme I see in those games was that the defense was significantly aided by bad weather. Otherwise this D simply collapses. Look at the length of drives. Other than the Hines fumble on the punt (the only defensive stop from 5 minutes remaining in the 2nd quarter) this is not a case of the D being constantly put in bad situations by the offense.
Reich seems to recognize something many Colts fans don’t - the defense sucks and the Colts best chance at winning is scoring points however that can be done. Not by getting a two score lead and milking the clock. It’s one of the reasons I agree with Reich almost every time he goes for it on 4th down. Because the Colts best shot at winning is by scoring points. The D excels at creating turnovers, otherwise decent offenses have their way with them. That is the primary reason this team is 6-6 not Reich’s play calling.
ChoppedWood
11-30-2021, 11:52 PM
There is not one team in the league that could have beat the Colts last Sunday without turnovers.
I love JT. While many of you hated the pick I loved it.
So many of you want the offense to be one dimensional.... run the shit of of JT
BUT. there are other weapons on this team..... Like Wentz..... This kid is for real!!!!
So why are some of you wanting the offense to be a one dimensional??
Why is it that Wentz that is tearing it up But JT's 2 yards per attempt is the answer?
I'd take this offense against any team in the NFL
Don't at all want it to be one dimensional. I was in favor of the Wentz project and as I said in the game thread, IMO he IS the answer.
Nothing to do with being 1D. Quite the contrary. Our coach, becomes 1D, and he has done it over and over again. Hell, in the Buffalo game you could even contend he became that way, running no matter what the front was.
There are two games where he has just went ape-sh!t with the passing. In both, we lost. The simple statement holds true, more things can go wrong trying to pass than running.
I guess Arian's made some statement today about how they weren't expecting them to run so they were tee'ing off with the rush.
Fisher has definitely improved in the run blocking but his pass pro has been ass all year. Throwing it that many times in a row, you are inviting something bad to happen. Twice it did, the SS and the INT.
Not wanting one dimensional, I want Wentz throwing the ball (I also want much better weapons for him). I also EXPECT a HC to be competent enough to recognize that he has a fantastic weapon that he is COMPLETELY ignoring because, well because IMO, he sucks at this.
Discflinger
11-30-2021, 11:59 PM
Fuck you, brah ndon.
Otherwise I agree.
ChoppedWood
12-01-2021, 12:02 AM
Lost in all the debate about Reich is what I see as the true issue with this team. Here are the last 7 possession for TB:
TD (84 yd drive)
Kneel down - end of half
TD (65 yd drive)
TD (65 yd drive)
Punt - fumbled by Hines
FG (13 yds - off the fumble)
TD (75 yd drive)
Last 4 against Baltimore:
TD (75 yd drive)
TD (78 yd drive)
TD (75 yd drive)
TD (68 yd drive)
Yet I’m expected to believe the issue with this team is that Reich didn’t sprinkle in a few more runs? I’m sorry that’s BS. The Colts two best wins of the season were SF and Buffalo. One common theme I see in those games was that the defense was significantly aided by bad weather. Otherwise this D simply collapses. Look at the length of drives. Other than the Hines fumble on the punt (the only defensive stop from 5 minutes remaining in the 2nd quarter) this is not a case of the D being constantly put in bad situations by the offense.
Reich seems to recognize something many Colts fans don’t - the defense sucks and the Colts best chance at winning is scoring points however that can be done. Not by getting a two score lead and milking the clock. It’s one of the reasons I agree with Reich almost every time he goes for it on 4th down. Because the Colts best shot at winning is by scoring points. The D excels at creating turnovers, otherwise decent offenses have their way with them. That is the primary reason this team is 6-6 not Reich’s play calling.
Agree, the D has consistently folded. There's a lot to put on Ballard there because the DE position has just consistently not gotten the job done leaving our backfield trying to cover for far too long. However when a guy nearly everyone lauds for his analysis in Venturi literally scoffs at the fact that we play a high school scheme, and this same SH!T defensive strategy is run out there every damn week, the bigger problem to me is clearly the DC. I hate his scheme, his near 100% reliance on Darius to make a play, and the incredible repetitive 70%+ completion rate of QB after QB against him.
Then again, Frank Reich is the HC, he has the power to sit down with him and demand we do something different. Oh, wait, Frank probably had no idea we played cover 2 for 87 plays straight, I bet no one told him.
Gut em' and start over!
Discflinger
12-01-2021, 12:03 AM
Dude, we have an amazing team that is PRIMED!
Discflinger
12-01-2021, 12:05 AM
Let’s GO!
rm1369
12-01-2021, 12:35 AM
Agree, the D has consistently folded. There's a lot to put on Ballard there because the DE position has just consistently not gotten the job done leaving our backfield trying to cover for far too long. However when a guy nearly everyone lauds for his analysis in Venturi literally scoffs at the fact that we play a high school scheme, and this same SH!T defensive strategy is run out there every damn week, the bigger problem to me is clearly the DC. I hate his scheme, his near 100% reliance on Darius to make a play, and the incredible repetitive 70%+ completion rate of QB after QB against him.
Then again, Frank Reich is the HC, he has the power to sit down with him and demand we do something different. Oh, wait, Frank probably had no idea we played cover 2 for 87 plays straight, I bet no one told him.
Gut em' and start over!
I’m not particularly a fan of the scheme either, but no scheme works without a pass rush. They started the season with no DE with double digit sacks CUMULATIVE for their career. And Eberflus was Ballard’s pick for defensive coordinator, not Reich’s. He was hired before Reich.
Kray007
12-01-2021, 12:46 AM
You seem to think that since Wentz was on fire we did the correct thing in keeping passing. Maybe you were being sarcastic and I totally missed it. My point was that going with the guy on fire got us a loss. I don't believe Wentz is good enough to carry a team like he is being asked or wants to, whatever is the case. I think we need to not pass 20 some odd times in a row, no matter how hot the qb is. The team has no identity.
5 turnovers got us a loss. And the identity of this team is very simple. Stop Taylor and Wentz will drop 30 on you. Stop Wentz and Taylor will rush for 160. Either way, there isn’t a defense in the league that’s good enough to hold them under 4 TD’s
Kray007
12-01-2021, 12:57 AM
Puck I agree with you that if you qb is having a hot game you need to ride him more. I just think that we need to run the ball way more than we did if we want to be effective long term. Throwing like 26 times in a row isn't riding the hot hand. It is a whole new game plan. Lawrence Owen has a link to a podcast with D'Qwell Jackson on this site. He and Edge make the same point I am trying to make but do it much clearer and with more nuance than I do. We need to be more balanced. And it is not just about this game, it is about how the whole season has gone. When things get difficult we just do not have an identity to fall back on.
You’ve got to keep in mind that 8 or 9 of those passes came in the two minute drill that ended the 1st half. If you have problems, it should be with the first 16 plays of the 2nd half.
And, it’s not as though Reich called 16 straight passes. A number of them were called RPO’s, which would have been runs if Tampa hadn’t been stacking the box.
Racehorse
12-01-2021, 08:16 AM
No idea what you are saying. Talk to me like I'm 5 yrs old
I suppose you want a spanking, too. You are so kinky.
Racehorse
12-01-2021, 08:18 AM
Oh I think there is an identity to this team. That identity is one of a megalomaniac smart guy that is dead set on proving he can beat teams with his play calling. It's costing us games over and over. But, ehhh, he's a really nice guy and good with the media so....
Nah, you aren't on the team
ChoppedWood
12-01-2021, 10:29 AM
Nah, you aren't on the team
Oh, really, gonna do the you can't use "us" then. Next game thread, my expectation is every time someone says "we", you will add the disclaimer to their post assuring the readership that said poster is not on the team either. Thanks for the civic service.
Colts And Orioles
12-01-2021, 10:35 AM
Oh, really, gonna do the you can't use "us" then. Next game thread, my expectation is every time someone says "we", you will add the disclaimer to their post assuring the readership that said poster is not on the team either. Thanks for the civic service.
o
I think that his joke was insinuating that you were the megalomaniac smart guy instead of Reich, not that you were just a fan who didn't contribute to the play on the field.
o
ChoppedWood
12-01-2021, 10:39 AM
o
I think that his joke was insinuating that you were the megalomaniac smart guy instead of Reich, not that you were just a fan who didn't contribute to the play on the field.
o
Ahhhhh good point C&O. Flew right over my head admittedly.
Oldcolt
12-01-2021, 11:08 AM
As I said previously, D'Qwell Jackson, Edge and a host of other retired players agree with me about this offense. It helps to win games if you can run when YOU want to run, not when the defense lets you run. Got a big lead and if you can run the ball regardless of what the defense wants you to do you run out the clock and demoralize the hell out of the other team. We have the line and backs to do that. What we are doing isn't working if what you want to do is win against good teams.
ChoppedWood
12-01-2021, 11:53 AM
As I said previously, D'Qwell Jackson, Edge and a host of other retired players agree with me about this offense. It helps to win games if you can run when YOU want to run, not when the defense lets you run. Got a big lead and if you can run the ball regardless of what the defense wants you to do you run out the clock and demoralize the hell out of the other team. We have the line and backs to do that. What we are doing isn't working if what you want to do is win against good teams.
Spot on. So with Frank in charge, a year in / year out 9-8, 8-9, maybe get to 10 here and there. Because that's the way it is generally going to work out in the NFL, about half your games will be against good teams and about half against "bad" and as such we should expect to lose about half our games. YAY!
OldColt is right, we are 1-9 vs "good" teams, with Buffalo being the win, and we did it by demolishing their stacked box. But this week, well we couldn't even TRY that, that would have been silly.
Dacich has a spot preview running where he is yelling about being satisfied with mediocrity and how we have to overcome the opponent and Frank Reich to get wins, he is 100% with that take. With Frank in charge, Darius, Q, JT, and Pittman are going to see no hardware as great as they are.
Oldcolt
12-01-2021, 12:00 PM
I am not as down on Reich as some are here. He isn't going anywhere anyway. I actually think if we had a better wide receiver set a whole lot of this would take care of itself, but we don't. Campbell may make it back late December and that could be a boost, sort of a poor man's offensive Sanders (I know he isn't in the same league as Sanders was). Hope lives but is on life support.
YDFL Commish
12-01-2021, 12:06 PM
As I said previously, D'Qwell Jackson, Edge and a host of other retired players agree with me about this offense. It helps to win games if you can run when YOU want to run, not when the defense lets you run. Got a big lead and if you can run the ball regardless of what the defense wants you to do you run out the clock and demoralize the hell out of the other team. We have the line and backs to do that. What we are doing isn't working if what you want to do is win against good teams.
A 10 pt. lead with a 1/2 to play is not the time to start running clock.
Oldcolt
12-01-2021, 01:17 PM
Depends on what we mean by running the clock. I am not saying go away from the pass completely, I would like to see more runs, that's all. I am not advocating running the ball 10 times in a row. I would like a more balanced attack. To me Wentz is an average QB, he isn't Unitas, Manning or even Luck. I don't like the idea of putting this team on his back game after game. I do think we can win and win big with Wentz. I liked the rhetoric that Reich/Ballard used when we signed him, he didn't need to be the whole answer just part of the team. It appears to me that we have gotten away from that a bit.
albany ed
12-01-2021, 01:49 PM
What I don't understand is how a supposedly top 5 OL can be so poor in pass blocking. For the entire year, I haven't seen one game where I felt the OL did a great job in pass protection. Early on, I presumed it was because of injuries and inconsistent personnel. However, in the last 4 or so games, the line has been healthy and yet the pass blocking has not been good. As a matter of fact, I shouldn't get an argument if I said the pass blocking downright sucked. Can anyone explain it?
ChoppedWood
12-01-2021, 01:53 PM
What I don't understand is how a supposedly top 5 OL can be so poor in pass blocking. For the entire year, I haven't seen one game where I felt the OL did a great job in pass protection. Early on, I presumed it was because of injuries and inconsistent personnel. However, in the last 4 or so games, the line has been healthy and yet the pass blocking has not been good. As a matter of fact, I shouldn't get an argument if I said the pass blocking downright sucked. Can anyone explain it?
Agree.
To me, looks like they spend an incredible amount of time focused on RB in practice. Their timing and precision on pulls is stellar. When we go bulldozer, the cross blocks are incredibly well executed, they turn guys to the correct shoulder so much it is wild to watch in replays.
Looks like we just throw in a few pass pro's here and there to make sure they know the calls and that's it.
And it sure as hell looked like Reed was pass blocking on one of the runs where we got stuffed, which is terrible if so!
Hoopsdoc
12-01-2021, 02:21 PM
Spot on. So with Frank in charge, a year in / year out 9-8, 8-9, maybe get to 10 here and there. Because that's the way it is generally going to work out in the NFL, about half your games will be against good teams and about half against "bad" and as such we should expect to lose about half our games. YAY!
OldColt is right, we are 1-9 vs "good" teams, with Buffalo being the win, and we did it by demolishing their stacked box. But this week, well we couldn't even TRY that, that would have been silly.
Dacich has a spot preview running where he is yelling about being satisfied with mediocrity and how we have to overcome the opponent and Frank Reich to get wins, he is 100% with that take. With Frank in charge, Darius, Q, JT, and Pittman are going to see no hardware as great as they are.
They won 11 games last year with the corpse of Philip Rivers.
I’ve said it before, they get a pass this season from me because of the way everything started. Wentz’s training camp was basically the first four games of the year, which put them behind the 8 ball.
I expect 11-13 wins minimum next year, provided Wentz stays healthy.
Oldcolt
12-01-2021, 02:34 PM
They won 11 games last year with the corpse of Philip Rivers.
I’ve said it before, they get a pass this season from me because of the way everything started. Wentz’s training camp was basically the first four games of the year, which put them behind the 8 ball.
I expect 11-13 wins minimum next year, provided Wentz stays healthy.
This is a very reasonable approach to this year. Thanks. Still this year sucks.
ChoppedWood
12-01-2021, 02:39 PM
They won 11 games last year with the corpse of Philip Rivers.
I’ve said it before, they get a pass this season from me because of the way everything started. Wentz’s training camp was basically the first four games of the year, which put them behind the 8 ball.
I expect 11-13 wins minimum next year, provided Wentz stays healthy.
But that's not how this works, and you know it. Next year, it will be JT with a blown knee in game 2, Pittman will lose a finger after game 5, Darius will surprisingly retire. This is the way the NFL works, it is Not For Long. We have a really good team, a team that contend right now. We have a coach that to me, can't leverage that in the moment talent because he has to be contrarian, has to tout that no one complained about his 26 straight passes because on 6 of them we averaged 7 per and that is "exceptional". What would be exceptional is having won the three games that he unquestionably played a considerable role in us losing because of his decision making process.
Man, I love aggression, I want a coach that wants to stomp the life out of the opponent. I also love seeing arcade game level offense where it seems there is no stopping the ball moving down the field (ala Manning's prime years). What I also want is a coach that recognizes what he has and how to best utilize it, which when you have this OL and THAT RB, c'mon. There is not a single cell in my body that is ever going to be convinced the best path to a W in the NFL is 26 straight passes. EVER. Don't care if it is Brady vs the 0fer Lions.
I am fully on board with Dacich when he says that Frank has no "feel" for the game. Completely agree. I think he is obsessed with #'s, I think he is infatuated with chunk plays, I think he feels a certain amount of pressure to prop up the guy he stuck his neck out for, and I think he is an obsessive control freak. These are the things I THINK, and I THINK that all those things combined find us losing games that we seemingly should have won because he can't get out of his own way.
Hoopsdoc
12-01-2021, 03:06 PM
But that's not how this works, and you know it. Next year, it will be JT with a blown knee in game 2, Pittman will lose a finger after game 5, Darius will surprisingly retire. This is the way the NFL works, it is Not For Long. We have a really good team, a team that contend right now. We have a coach that to me, can't leverage that in the moment talent because he has to be contrarian, has to tout that no one complained about his 26 straight passes because on 6 of them we averaged 7 per and that is "exceptional". What would be exceptional is having won the three games that he unquestionably played a considerable role in us losing because of his decision making process.
Man, I love aggression, I want a coach that wants to stomp the life out of the opponent. I also love seeing arcade game level offense where it seems there is no stopping the ball moving down the field (ala Manning's prime years). What I also want is a coach that recognizes what he has and how to best utilize it, which when you have this OL and THAT RB, c'mon. There is not a single cell in my body that is ever going to be convinced the best path to a W in the NFL is 26 straight passes. EVER. Don't care if it is Brady vs the 0fer Lions.
I am fully on board with Dacich when he says that Frank has no "feel" for the game. Completely agree. I think he is obsessed with #'s, I think he is infatuated with chunk plays, I think he feels a certain amount of pressure to prop up the guy he stuck his neck out for, and I think he is an obsessive control freak. These are the things I THINK, and I THINK that all those things combined find us losing games that we seemingly should have won because he can't get out of his own way.
So, essentially, you want a Bill Belichick clone, only one who’s better on offense.
That’s not realistic. It’s just not. I know you’re frustrated but Frank, with all his warts, is still a top 10 coach in this league. He’s proven that. Wentz is his 4th starting quarterback in 4 years and he has a winning record and 2 playoff appearances in that span.
Plus, canning Frank would put us right back into qb purgatory with no reasonable way out.
Frank’s not going anywhere, nor should he.
TheMugwump
12-01-2021, 05:37 PM
Great point. Even greater point is we did it your way and lost, more than once this year. Doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results is...well we know what it is-a loss.
I think my response to that is that they did not lose because of the offense.
Running Taylor or not isn't making the defense suck against the mid-range pass. It's not like the Colts are scoring lightning quickly all that often(the bomb on Sunday being an exception), so the defense isn't getting worn out because they are constantly on the field. The ToP was 29.59/30:01 on Sunday.
It's the dang defense.
Racehorse
12-01-2021, 06:49 PM
o
I think that his joke was insinuating that you were the megalomaniac smart guy instead of Reich, not that you were just a fan who didn't contribute to the play on the field.
o
It should have been obvious.
Racehorse
12-01-2021, 06:54 PM
But that's not how this works, and you know it. Next year, it will be JT with a blown knee in game 2, Pittman will lose a finger after game 5, Darius will surprisingly retire. This is the way the NFL works, it is Not For Long. We have a really good team, a team that contend right now. We have a coach that to me, can't leverage that in the moment talent because he has to be contrarian, has to tout that no one complained about his 26 straight passes because on 6 of them we averaged 7 per and that is "exceptional". What would be exceptional is having won the three games that he unquestionably played a considerable role in us losing because of his decision making process.
Man, I love aggression, I want a coach that wants to stomp the life out of the opponent. I also love seeing arcade game level offense where it seems there is no stopping the ball moving down the field (ala Manning's prime years). What I also want is a coach that recognizes what he has and how to best utilize it, which when you have this OL and THAT RB, c'mon. There is not a single cell in my body that is ever going to be convinced the best path to a W in the NFL is 26 straight passes. EVER. Don't care if it is Brady vs the 0fer Lions.
I am fully on board with Dacich when he says that Frank has no "feel" for the game. Completely agree. I think he is obsessed with #'s, I think he is infatuated with chunk plays, I think he feels a certain amount of pressure to prop up the guy he stuck his neck out for, and I think he is an obsessive control freak. These are the things I THINK, and I THINK that all those things combined find us losing games that we seemingly should have won because he can't get out of his own way.
Let me guess...you are an only child
Kray007
12-01-2021, 08:22 PM
But that's not how this works, and you know it. Next year, it will be JT with a blown knee in game 2, Pittman will lose a finger after game 5, Darius will surprisingly retire. This is the way the NFL works, it is Not For Long. We have a really good team, a team that contend right now. We have a coach that to me, can't leverage that in the moment talent because he has to be contrarian, has to tout that no one complained about his 26 straight passes because on 6 of them we averaged 7 per and that is "exceptional". What would be exceptional is having won the three games that he unquestionably played a considerable role in us losing because of his decision making process.
Man, I love aggression, I want a coach that wants to stomp the life out of the opponent. I also love seeing arcade game level offense where it seems there is no stopping the ball moving down the field (ala Manning's prime years). What I also want is a coach that recognizes what he has and how to best utilize it, which when you have this OL and THAT RB, c'mon. There is not a single cell in my body that is ever going to be convinced the best path to a W in the NFL is 26 straight passes. EVER. Don't care if it is Brady vs the 0fer Lions.
I am fully on board with Dacich when he says that Frank has no "feel" for the game. Completely agree. I think he is obsessed with #'s, I think he is infatuated with chunk plays, I think he feels a certain amount of pressure to prop up the guy he stuck his neck out for, and I think he is an obsessive control freak. These are the things I THINK, and I THINK that all those things combined find us losing games that we seemingly should have won because he can't get out of his own way.
This isn’t the greatest show on turf, but in 6 of the last 7 games, they’ve put up more than 30 points.
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