quick thoughts on the stupid dolphins

[omahacolt]

1) this team lacks leadership. 0-3 and start the game with major fundamental errors like tackling and piss poor containment. just overall seemed not ready to play

2) wentz got better as the day progressed. he was mostly accurate, missed pittman in the end zone again and that late pascal pass was just bad. made good throws and plays as well. also had terrible blocking most of the time. really hard to tell what we have in wentz other than it is safe to say it is a dude we don't want trying to do too much and probably doesn't read the field well.

3) we can't block. our tackles are a disaster. smith should be back soon but he didn't look so good to start the year. he will be a massive upgrade regardless. fisher is horrible. hopefully smith can come back and be competent and we can give te help to fisher and cross our fingers.

4) good to see jt get some work today. we need to run this offense through the backs. runs and screens. short passing. anything to keep the rush at bay and take our shots accordingly.

5) feed mo cox. this dude needs opportunities.

6) lets be done with campbell. when hilton is back, campbell can just hit the bench.

7) zach pascal plays way too much. his playing time is tells how bad ballard has been at building the wr room.

8) pittman looks good. just have to get him in the end zone.

9) speaking of which. our red zone offense is trash. never thought i would say this but put the big boys out there and throw fades. can't be much worse.

10) turay had 2 sacks and at least 4 good rushes against that bad RT. good to see him make an impact. Lewis isn't very good. i don't care what pff says. aqm is serviceable. hopefully paye gets back quick.

11) what the fuck rhodes? are you horrible again? stop it fucker.

12) i had high hopes of rodgers at cb to be competent. i was wrong.

13) this team lacks talent. thats on ballard. depth is bad.

14) who does rotating tackles? play the best fucking guy. for fucks sake

15) eason is done. just cut him when ehlinger can play. another front office fuck up

[njcoltfan]

1) this team lacks leadership. 0-3 and start the game with major fundamental errors like tackling and piss poor containment. just overall seemed not ready to play

2) wentz got better as the day progressed. he was mostly accurate, missed pittman in the end zone again and that late pascal pass was just bad. made good throws and plays as well. also had terrible blocking most of the time. really hard to tell what we have in wentz other than it is safe to say it is a dude we don't want trying to do too much and probably doesn't read the field well.

3) we can't block. our tackles are a disaster. smith should be back soon but he didn't look so good to start the year. he will be a massive upgrade regardless. fisher is horrible. hopefully smith can come back and be competent and we can give te help to fisher and cross our fingers.

4) good to see jt get some work today. we need to run this offense through the backs. runs and screens. short passing. anything to keep the rush at bay and take our shots accordingly.

5) feed mo cox. this dude needs opportunities.

6) lets be done with campbell. when hilton is back, campbell can just hit the bench.

7) zach pascal plays way too much. his playing time is tells how bad ballard has been at building the wr room.

8) pittman looks good. just have to get him in the end zone.

9) speaking of which. our red zone offense is trash. never thought i would say this but put the big boys out there and throw fades. can't be much worse.

10) turay had 2 sacks and at least 4 good rushes against that bad RT. good to see him make an impact. Lewis isn't very good. i don't care what pff says. aqm is serviceable. hopefully paye gets back quick.

11) what the fuck rhodes? are you horrible again? stop it fucker.

12) i had high hopes of rodgers at cb to be competent. i was wrong.

13) this team lacks talent. thats on ballard. depth is bad.

14) who does rotating tackles? play the best fucking guy. for fucks sake

15) eason is done. just cut him when ehlinger can play. another front office fuck up
What the hell Omaha , you can’t criticize the Almighty Ballard !!!

[Thorgrim]

Spoken like a true gentleman and scholar Oma

[apballin]

Yes I’m the red zone that toss up to Mo Allie should be attempted every time

[Hoopsdoc]

I thought they benched Davenport? It was well deserved. Dude needed to be shot. Did he come back in?

Wentz is one hell of a competitor, you have to give him that. He tries TOO hard and that’s when he gets in trouble. He needs to learn to eat plays when they aren’t there.

Of course, when he has less than 2 seconds before he gets creamed, that’s a challenge. The tackle play got a little better as the game went on but that’s faint praise because they were abysmal early.

Campbell is just horrible. Get him off the field.

I’m still pissed at Reich over what he did last week, giving Taylor 10 carries. He needs to be the centerpiece of every game plan. The dude was clearly not at 100 percent and he still averaged 6 yards a carry. He’s a threat to go all the way with every single carry.

Speaking of playing hurt, Darius Leonard can barely move. It hurts my ankle watching him play.

Hines knows better than that. That fumble was inexcusable for a player that good.

Is it just me or is what we lose in tackling without Willis pretty much a wash with anyone who is better in coverage?

Good to see Turay have some luck today. He couldn’t do diddly shit against Tennessee, who gave up like 10 sacks to the Jets today. Color me unimpressed.

Lamar Jackson is gonna anally rape this defense next week.

[Brylok]

I watched Cardinals at Rams because I was curious about Arizona and I haven't paid any attention to them for a long time. I was stunned at how good they were in every phase of the game. The Rams had several self-inflicted wounds, but the Cardinals dominated them from start to finish.
Colts are nowhere near that level.

[Chromeburn]

I watched Cardinals at Rams because I was curious about Arizona and I haven't paid any attention to them for a long time. I was stunned at how good they were in every phase of the game. The Rams had several self-inflicted wounds, but the Cardinals dominated them from start to finish.
Colts are nowhere near that level.

Everyone laughed when they chose that coach. Then raised concern when they drafted Murry after drafting a QB the year before. Then loaded up on WRs. Things seem to be working for them.

[njcoltfan]

Everyone laughed when they chose that coach. Then raised concern when they drafted Murry after drafting a QB the year before. Then loaded up on WRs. Things seem to be working for them.

Free agents and trades, not the way to build a team!!

[omahacolt]

I thought they benched Davenport? It was well deserved. Dude needed to be shot. Did he come back in?

Wentz is one hell of a competitor, you have to give him that. He tries TOO hard and that’s when he gets in trouble. He needs to learn to eat plays when they aren’t there.

Of course, when he has less than 2 seconds before he gets creamed, that’s a challenge. The tackle play got a little better as the game went on but that’s faint praise because they were abysmal early.

Campbell is just horrible. Get him off the field.

I’m still pissed at Reich over what he did last week, giving Taylor 10 carries. He needs to be the centerpiece of every game plan. The dude was clearly not at 100 percent and he still averaged 6 yards a carry. He’s a threat to go all the way with every single carry.

Speaking of playing hurt, Darius Leonard can barely move. It hurts my ankle watching him play.

Hines knows better than that. That fumble was inexcusable for a player that good.

Is it just me or is what we lose in tackling without Willis pretty much a wash with anyone who is better in coverage?

Good to see Turay have some luck today. He couldn’t do diddly shit against Tennessee, who gave up like 10 sacks to the Jets today. Color me unimpressed.

Lamar Jackson is gonna anally rape this defense next week.

davenport was subbed out then came back in. then subbed out again later. it makes no sense. no team does that.

[apballin]

I watched Cardinals at Rams because I was curious about Arizona and I haven't paid any attention to them for a long time. I was stunned at how good they were in every phase of the game. The Rams had several self-inflicted wounds, but the Cardinals dominated them from start to finish.
Colts are nowhere near that level.

It’s a long season and matchups make the fight, we’ll get our chance to see where we measure up against mighty mouse

[HoosierinFL]

I’ll try my thoughts, despite the win this team still doesn’t look very good.

The run game is a lone bright spot, and that despite Hines having a bad game, not just the fumble but he did little as an RB. Has Wilkins got a single snap this year? I recall him being the best short yardage back on the team, why aren’t we using him in those goal to go situations?

Passing offense is hit or miss. If Wentz has time he is making good throws, though he is clearly not in any sort of rhythm with the offensive scheme or receivers. Hopefully this will take time and get better.

But that assumes he has time. The tackles continue to be awful.

I have no idea why MAC doesn’t get more targets, all he does is score touchdowns.

I have no idea why it is people keep saying TEs are such an important part of Reich’s offense when we do jack shit with them.

I have no idea why we don’t try and use all these tall receivers in the red zone. Why is Reich’s scheme predicated on big and tall WRs when we don’t do anything that takes advantage of that.

I still think the team gets better when TY comes back. I’m hoping he will still be a solid receiver, but also it means less attention to Campbell and Pascal, and even takes some load off Pittman.

The run defense looked OK today but it was a mirage. The dolphins can’t run. Our tackling remains terrible, too many times we let Brissett escape pressure.

The secondary continued to be awful. We’re lucky Brissett is hesitant to throw deep, and yet there in the 4th quarter it was like he suddenly got over that and started making big plays down field. If he had been doing that all game, we lose.

Rodgers is the worst tackler I’ve ever seen.

[Hoopsdoc]

Also, what was the deal with Jack Doyle not playing in the first half?

[AlwaysSunnyinIndy]

Also, what was the deal with Jack Doyle not playing in the first half?

Doyle was dealing with a back injury last week.

He might have missed the first half because the Colts were doing some sort of load management or maybe he had trouble getting loosened up in pregame warmups and the training staff kept working on it after the game started.

[Mr. Session]

Has Wilkins got a single snap this year? I recall him being the best short yardage back on the team, why aren’t we using him in those goal to go situations?

Passing offense is hit or miss. If Wentz has time he is making good throws, though he is clearly not in any sort of rhythm with the offensive scheme or receivers. Hopefully this will take time and get better.


Rodgers is the worst tackler I’ve ever seen.

I'm convinced Wilkins has made the team the last 2 years for special team contributions alone. He did get a snap in the game IIRC but he was blocking. I've never really understood why Wilkins didn't get more work but let it go because Mack & Taylor have both been pretty productive, historically.

I like Wilkins more as a traditional option at the position than Hines but because Hines' skillset is much more diverse it makes sense why he gets more work.

Wentz is starting to annoy the shit out of me with the checkdowns. Luck would annoy me because he wouldn't even take them, it was like he was either going to force the ball downfield or take an ugly sack resulting in some fucked up internal injury that he would later thank the defender for providing. With Wentz its like he just doesn't process things fast enough. If he keeps gently tossing those lobs on checkdowns like he did against MIA one of the RB's is going to get hurt. He needs to get that shit out so the RB can actually do something with it.

Rodgers is too small. I'm honestly surprised he plays as much as he does. If he slows the ball carrier I'm honestly happy. I am very surprised when he manages to complete an open field tackle solo. I like the kid's ball skills and return ability but I don't want to see him playing the boundary and having to contribute against the run game.

[Oldcolt]

I'm frustrated like the rest of us with the play of our skill players, specifically Campbell. I am unwilling to make any long term decisions on any of these guys until I see what they are capable of with a capable offensive line. I feel the same way about Wentz, although I am one of the few here who is pretty high on the guy. I think we have our long term QB answer. He is middling to a little better in my opinion and that should be enough.

[Chromeburn]

I'm frustrated like the rest of us with the play of our skill players, specifically Campbell. I am unwilling to make any long term decisions on any of these guys until I see what they are capable of with a capable offensive line. I feel the same way about Wentz, although I am one of the few here who is pretty high on the guy. I think we have our long term QB answer. He is middling to a little better in my opinion and that should be enough.

I read an analysis during the off-season that Wentz doesn’t traditionally throw to a Cambell type receiver. He likes the big striding type receivers. Hence all the targets towards Pittman and the TEs. I have to say Pittman is great out of his cuts and creates separation. But we will see, long season to go. I feel like we are still scratching at the surface of Campbell’s potential.

[dwilli57]

Luck would annoy me because he wouldn't even take them, it was like he was either going to force the ball downfield or take an ugly sack resulting in some fucked up internal injury that he would later thank the defender for providing.

Love this. Only bc I remember that. Fuck Luck.

Sent from my SM-G981U using Tapatalk

[omahacolt]

Love this. Only bc I remember that. Fuck Luck.

Sent from my SM-G981U using Tapatalk

luck was awesome. Fuck you.

not sent from my sm-g981u using tapatalk

[omahacolt]

I read an analysis during the off-season that Wentz doesn’t traditionally throw to a Cambell type receiver. He likes the big striding type receivers. Hence all the targets towards Pittman and the TEs. I have to say Pittman is great out of his cuts and creates separation. But we will see, long season to go. I feel like we are still scratching at the surface of Campbell’s potential.

he threw a 50 yarder to him and he just let it bounce of his dumb hands

[Chromeburn]

he threw a 50 yarder to him and he just let it bounce of his dumb hands

Yeah, gotta catch that won’t help him trust you. I wonder how many target he has? Cambell needs to get touches in space. Need to help build his confidence. He is still light on actual experience. Pittman has more than him.

[AlwaysSunnyinIndy]

Yeah, gotta catch that won’t help him trust you. I wonder how many target he has? Cambell needs to get touches in space. Need to help build his confidence. He is still light on actual experience. Pittman has more than him.

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/C/CampPa00.htm

For the season, Parris has 5 receptions out of 10 targets.

His number of snaps has been 46 (61% of offensive snaps), 49 (80%), and 31 (44%).

[YDFL Commish]

I guess I'm more of a glass half, than glass half empty type on this past game.

I see Wentz improving while still hobbled.

A depleted OL that was pretty good when Davenport wasn't on the field.

We've improved in run defense, which will really be tested this week.

Okereke and Leonard are starting to look like a tandem.

Down 3 DB's and the secondary held up, for the most part.

If that's a less than 100% JT, than I'll take that every week.

What can we be when we get back TY, Braden, Q, Kwity, Rock, Khari, TJ and maybe Dayo?

That's a very highly touted secondary that we went against in Miami, yet we still made enough plays to win.

Sure, there is still more that I wanna see, such as:

Pittman becoming the alpha dog of the WR team. I wanna see him make those contested catches.

Reich sticking to the running game and not getting so cute with the play calling.

Consistent, consistent pass rush. Defo, is still beating double teams, but he seeing more of them and it's preventing him from being the force that he can be.

DB's & LB's still not on the same page in pass defense, leaving to wide open targets.

A Ben Banagu sighting.

More of Kemoko playing like he did on Sunday.

What's with Pascal having 3 holding calls in 2 weeks?

Can we keep a QB in the pocket and stop them from getting 1st downs with their legs? It might be important this week!

[CanuckColt]

he threw a 50 yarder to him and he just let it bounce of his dumb hands
Yeah, that was a bad one...for now, we'll chalk it up to rust...he needs to play more and stay healthy.

[dwilli57]

luck was awesome. Fuck you.

not sent from my sm-g981u using tapatalk

He was til he quit. Fuck you.

[DragonTails]

Reich sticking to the running game and not getting so cute with the play calling.

I don't care how many time they run or pass. Would you want them sticking to the run if there are 10 in the box? No.

I want them to be smarter, call smarter plays, have better game plans and be able to adjust accordingly. Having better play design would help to. Do they know how to design rub routes that every team uses to get WIDE open?

[omahacolt]

He was til he quit. Fuck you.

he retired. he is still great.

fuck you

[JAFF]

he retired. he is still great.

fuck you

You 2 need to get a room

[dwilli57]

he retired. he is still great.

fuck you

He WAS great. Not now. fuck you.

[TheMugwump]

He WAS great. Not now. fuck you.

He was never great. He was good, but not "Let's suck his damn dick" good.

Get over it. He quit. He's gone. He won't take your calls.

[That "get over it" was more directed at omaha and those still pining than at you]

[Oldcolt]

Luck didn't win enough to be considered great. Only played in one conference championship and didn't have a long career. Took the money, walked away and never looked back. His actions say he doesn't give a fuck about making fans dreams come true. Guy knows what he wants out of life, gotta like that.

[apballin]

Luck didn't win enough to be considered great. Only played in one conference championship and didn't have a long career. Took the money, walked away and never looked back. His actions say he doesn't give a fuck about making fans dreams come true. Guy knows what he wants out of life, gotta like that.

One of only 2 QBs drafted number 1 to start week 1 and lead thier team to the playoffs in his rookie season, he set a lot of records and stepped right in and was immediately one of the best QBs on the league. No baby steps no bs learning curve he was great but he knew when to call it quits not a dam thing wrong with that, he could’ve ended up similar to Big Ben great long career with a couple rings or he could’ve been the next Cam Newton who knows. All I know is I respect the dude for not going out half assin collecting a check when you knew your heart wasn’t in it anymore I appreciate the games he gave us

[Oldcolt]

We may be discussing different things. Was Luck great at times, maybe even for a few years? I would not argue against that. What I mean is that I don't think when you start listing QBs with great careers he makes the cut.

[dwilli57]

We may be discussing different things. Was Luck great at times, maybe even for a few years? I would not argue against that. What I mean is that I don't think when you start listing QBs with great careers he makes the cut.

I tend to agree. He was a helluva qb when he was here and I winced every week when he'd get beaten to a pulp, lacerated kidney, etc. etc. His timing for leaving could've been a little better.

[CletusPyle]

I wish we could have seen more of what Bruce Arians and Luck could have done together....I think things would have worked out much better for Luck and the Colts!

[TheMugwump]

I wish we could have seen more of what Bruce Arians and Luck could have done together....I think things would have worked out much better for Luck and the Colts!

I have thought about that too. The optics though, if they had let go of Pagano coming off of recovering from Cancer...

I don't think that was a call they were willing to make.

[Chromeburn]

I have thought about that too. The optics though, if they had let go of Pagano coming off of recovering from Cancer...

I don't think that was a call they were willing to make.

Should have made it, Arians was the better coach by far. Players lose their jobs bc of injury. Another Grigson failure.

[Oldcolt]

Not sure Arians would have done it.

[Chromeburn]

Not sure Arians would have done it.

Yeah he might not have. Everyone loved Pagano.

[Butter]

Should have made it, Arians was the better coach by far. Players lose their jobs bc of injury. Another Grigson failure.

That level of decision would have also been Irsay.

[omahacolt]

Should have made it, Arians was the better coach by far. Players lose their jobs bc of injury. Another Grigson failure.

nobody would have done that. nobody. its retarded to suggest it really

[JAFF]

Luck gave it 100% every game. Thats how he got a ruptured organ trying to score.

He will have a life time of health issues from playing football. Everyone else needs to get over it

[Oldcolt]

We are

[Brylok]

nobody would have done that. nobody. its retarded to suggest it really

Kinda like people saying to sit Wentz so we can keep the pick we're giving to Philly. Do that, and other teams won't want to deal with the Colts anymore because we don't make deals in good faith. It's like backing out of a bet or writing a bad check.

[JAFF]

We are

Then why this conversation?

[Spike]

Then why this conversation?

Because it is a message board that's why! You leftists need to stop your BS narratives trying to dissuade others from expressing their thoughts. I don't agree with everything everyone says, but it's their right to say what they feel.

[Chromeburn]

nobody would have done that. nobody. its retarded to suggest it really

Until someone does do it. Happens to players all the time. Coaches change their mind at the 11th hour. Take another job right after accepting one. Very little loyalty in sports.

[JAFF]

Because it is a message board that's why! You leftists need to stop your BS narratives trying to dissuade others from expressing their thoughts. I don't agree with everything everyone says, but it's their right to say what they feel.

Its has nothing to do with politics, why do YOU insist on making it something it isnt?

Luck is gone and he wont be back. Despite a lousy HC and a crappy GM, he dragged the Colts towards success until he was physically unable to continue. He damn near died from a ruptured organ, in front of the home town crowd.

He earned every bit of his contract, he left his blood on the LOS field.

Maybe we need to ask why are they playing Wentz on two bad legs? Havent they learned anything about protecting a talented player?

[Oldcolt]

There is a whole lot of shit I'm over that I still talk about. Just giving my worthless opinion like all the assholes around here.

[omahacolt]

He was never great. He was good, but not "Let's suck his damn dick" good.

Get over it. He quit. He's gone. He won't take your calls.

[That "get over it" was more directed at omaha and those still pining than at you]

he was great. and nobody is "lets suck his dick good"

[omahacolt]

Until someone does do it. Happens to players all the time. Coaches change their mind at the 11th hour. Take another job right after accepting one. Very little loyalty in sports.

well you can pretend that is comparable but it isn't. it isn't at all.


firing a coach because he got cancer in his first year wasnt ever going to happen.

[Chromeburn]

well you can pretend that is comparable but it isn't. it isn't at all.


firing a coach because he got cancer in his first year wasnt ever going to happen.

You can pretend that this doesn’t happen in other other companies but it does.

They just don’t have local media covering the issue. And those people aren’t millionaires being replaced with millionaires.

Would it have happened here, probably not. But it will happen eventually.

[Oldcolt]

Omaha is correct, it was never going to happen. Arians would never have taken the job in that situation, it is to scumbaggy even for football coaches. Same with Irsay. At the time when Pagano came back quite a few Freaks thought Arians was better but everyone knew it wouldn't happen.Being that disloyal to a man that hired you just isn't in Arians DNA.

This would be completely different than sitting Wentz to protect our first. We wouldn't be fucking a teammate to begin with. Doubt that Irsay, Ballard or Reich would go for such a thing but I couldn't care less if we did. If Phili wanted assurances that Wentz would play if healthy they should have put it into the deal. I'm not sure why people think we owe it to Phili to play Wentz. Where is that written?

[Chromeburn]

Omaha is correct, it was never going to happen. Arians would never have taken the job in that situation, it is to scumbaggy even for football coaches. Same with Irsay. At the time when Pagano came back quite a few Freaks thought Arians was better but everyone knew it wouldn't happen.Being that disloyal to a man that hired you just isn't in Arians DNA.

This would be completely different than sitting Wentz to protect our first. We wouldn't be fucking a teammate to begin with. Doubt that Irsay, Ballard or Reich would go for such a thing but I couldn't care less if we did. If Phili wanted assurances that Wentz would play if healthy they should have put it into the deal. I'm not sure why people think we owe it to Phili to play Wentz. Where is that written?

A lot of people thought he was better. There were articles written about it. No one suggested replacing him, but they were thinking it. And there were some reflective articles written about it years after. Maybe things would have turned out differently with Luck.

Wentz is injured. He should have been resting not playing. That Titans game was ridiculous watching him hobble around. If they truly think he is the answer then they should be protecting him. If it’s because they didn’t think they had a good backup, well that’s on them.

[omahacolt]

You can pretend that this doesn’t happen in other other companies but it does.

They just don’t have local media covering the issue. And those people aren’t millionaires being replaced with millionaires.

Would it have happened here, probably not. But it will happen eventually.

nope

it will never happen

[Hoopsdoc]

nope

it will never happen

Totally unrelated to anything, but watching the Falcons Jets game I discovered that your boy TJ Green is somehow still in the league. Plays for the Falcons.

I only know because he ran into his own returner during a punt return. :)

How that turd is still drawing an NFL paycheck is one of life’s great mysteries.

[nate505]

Kinda like people saying to sit Wentz so we can keep the pick we're giving to Philly. Do that, and other teams won't want to deal with the Colts anymore because we don't make deals in good faith. It's like backing out of a bet or writing a bad check.

If the Colts are sitting in a position for a Top 10 pick, no shot at the playoffs and need to sit Wentz for the last 4 weeks to get it, they would be there complete laughingstock of the league if they played him and gave the Eagles a Top 10 pick. It would be a move so stupid that it would be hard to comprehend how anyone could be that stupid.

[nate505]

Luck gave it 100% every game. Thats how he got a ruptured organ trying to score.

He will have a life time of health issues from playing football. Everyone else needs to get over it

Agreed. I remember being bummed and a little upset after the week or so it happened, but at this point being mad about it is just bizarre.

[nate505]

This would be completely different than sitting Wentz to protect our first. We wouldn't be fucking a teammate to begin with. Doubt that Irsay, Ballard or Reich would go for such a thing but I couldn't care less if we did. If Phili wanted assurances that Wentz would play if healthy they should have put it into the deal. I'm not sure why people think we owe it to Phili to play Wentz. Where is that written?

I don't understand this rationale at all. The idea of trading a potential first for Wentz is that he's worth the pick. If he plays and the Colts suck to the point they aren't in playoff contention, he's not worth a first.

[omahacolt]

Totally unrelated to anything, but watching the Falcons Jets game I discovered that your boy TJ Green is somehow still in the league. Plays for the Falcons.

I only know because he ran into his own returner during a punt return. :)

How that turd is still drawing an NFL paycheck is one of life’s great mysteries.

how is that my boy?

[omahacolt]

If the Colts are sitting in a position for a Top 10 pick, no shot at the playoffs and need to sit Wentz for the last 4 weeks to get it, they would be there complete laughingstock of the league if they played him and gave the Eagles a Top 10 pick. It would be a move so stupid that it would be hard to comprehend how anyone could be that stupid.

you don't bench a player to help your position. what kind of person are you? i always knew colts fans were racist and generally bad people but jesus. ethics, morals and integrity are missing from indiana i see

[nate505]

you don't bench a player to help your position. what kind of person are you? i always knew colts fans were racist and generally bad people but jesus. ethics, morals and integrity are missing from indiana i see

I'm not even from Indiana so as usual your bashing is a swing and a miss. And you absolutely do bench a player to help your position unless you're a total fucking moron.

[Colts And Orioles]

o


This discussion about benching Wentz and/or not necessarily fielding their best team should the Colts be in the tank late in this 2021 season is mildly reminiscent of what happened late in the 2011 season. With Peyton Manning out for the entire year with a neck injury, the Colts started the season at 0-13. They seemed well on their way to getting the #1 overall pick (the Andrew Luck Sweepstakes) when they won 2 games in a row, and went right down to the wire in the final game of the season ........ a game in which it would have cost them that 1st overall pick had they won it, as the St. Louis Rams also went 2-14 that season. In that final game against the Jaguars I remember the Colts scoring a touchdown late in the 4th quarter to cut the deficit to 19-13, and then calling timeouts on defense to try to get the ball back when the Jaguars were trying to run out the clock.

It's not the same exact situation as the one being discussed now, but there is an element of "Are you we playing for now, or are we playing for the future?" element to both of them.

o

[omahacolt]

I'm not even from Indiana so as usual your bashing is a swing and a miss. And you absolutely do bench a player to help your position unless you're a total fucking moron.

other states make people that are pieces of shit as well.


and no you fucking don't bench the player just for the draft pick. this may be a surprise to you, but a lot of people aren't pieces of shit. you make a deal, you honor the deal.

it really shouldn't even be a discussion in the front office and i'm sure it isn't

[nate505]

other states make people that are pieces of shit as well.


and no you fucking don't bench the player just for the draft pick. this may be a surprise to you, but a lot of people aren't pieces of shit. you make a deal, you honor the deal.

it really shouldn't even be a discussion in the front office and i'm sure it isn't

You mean other states, where even in the states with the least population have hundreds of thousands of people, have people who suck in them? Brilliant fucking revelation there.

How exactly isn't that honoring the deal? The deal doesn't state that Wentz had to be healthy. I imagine it is being discussed in the front office as a potential move because I imagine the front office isn't that dumb.

[JAFF]

you don't bench a player to help your position. what kind of person are you? i always knew colts fans were racist and generally bad people but jesus. ethics, morals and integrity are missing from indiana i see

Really? Wow, just blanket condemnation for an entire state for one persons opinion

[Hoopsdoc]

Really? Wow, just blanket condemnation for an entire state for one persons opinion

Omaha is a moron on anything other than football.

[nate505]

Really? Wow, just blanket condemnation for an entire state for one persons opinion

For someone who isn't even from the state.

But (so I hear) there are assholes in every state! So, uh, there's that.

[Luck4Reich]

Really? Wow, just blanket condemnation for an entire state for one persons opinion

They say the truth hurts. If it isn't true then it doesn't phase you and you move on.

A lot of his statement is closer to right than wrong.

[Luck4Reich]

How exactly isn't that honoring the deal? The deal doesn't state that Wentz had to be healthy. I imagine it is being discussed in the front office as a potential move because I imagine the front office isn't that dumb.

But Wentz is Healthy. So why sit him? Because his ankles? Most players play through an injury. So we should sit Leonard too then. Let's sit a lot of other players too since they are dealing with injury.

Ballard made the decision to give up a first round pick.

[CletusPyle]

o


This discussion about benching Wentz and/or not necessarily fielding their best team should the Colts be in the tank late in this 2021 season is mildly reminiscent of what happened late in the 2011 season. With Peyton Manning out for the entire year with a neck injury, the Colts started the season at 0-13. They seemed well on their way to getting the #1 overall pick (the Andrew Luck Sweepstakes) when they won 2 games in a row, and went right down to the wire in the final game of the season ........ a game in which it would have cost them that 1st overall pick had they won it, as the St. Louis Rams also went 2-14 that season. In that final game against the Jaguars I remember the Colts scoring a touchdown late in the 4th quarter to cut the deficit to 19-13, and then calling timeouts on defense to try to get the ball back when the Jaguars were trying to run out the clock.

It's not the same exact situation as the one being discussed now, but there is an element of "Are you we playing for now, or are we playing for the future?" element to both of them.

o

The great Curtis Painter was a huge part of the 2011 season...but it was Orlovsky that blew the last game and secured the first pick!

[Hoopsdoc]

They say the truth hurts. If it isn't true then it doesn't phase you and you move on.

A lot of his statement is closer to right than wrong.

Lol. Omaha saying a fans opinion that the Colts should sit their white quarterback for the black back up so they can keep their first round pick means that all Colts fans are bad people and somehow racist is really dumb. Dumb things should be pointed out.

There’s no need to defend it.

[Hoopsdoc]

But Wentz is Healthy. So why sit him? Because his ankles? Most players play through an injury. So we should sit Leonard too then. Let's sit a lot of other players too since they are dealing with injury.

Ballard made the decision to give up a first round pick.

Wentz is far from healthy. And there wouldn’t be anything wrong with sitting him with an eye toward keeping the pick, as long as he was ok with it.

If Philly didn’t want to risk not getting the 1st rounder, they shouldn’t have made the deal. There’s nothing unethical about it.

Do you expect players to fulfill the contract they signed no matter what? How is that different?

[Racehorse]

For someone who isn't even from the state.

But (so I hear) there are assholes in every state! So, uh, there's that.

I live in Tennessee. I can confirm the existence of quite a few in this state.

As to racism, it is more subtle in Indiana but seemed far more prevalent there than here.

[CletusPyle]

I live in Tennessee. I can confirm the existence of quite a few in this state.

As to racism, it is more subtle in Indiana but seemed far more prevalent there than here.

All I know is there have been times when I have been at bar on 38th and Sherman and did not feel very welcome.....:D

[Racehorse]

All I know is there have been times when I have been at bar on 38th and Sherman and did not feel very welcome.....:D

Are you a POC, or an asshole? I mean, assholes are never welcome anywhere.

[Colts And Orioles]

o


This discussion about benching Wentz and/or not necessarily fielding their best team should the Colts be in the tank late in this 2021 season is mildly reminiscent of what happened late in the 2011 season. With Peyton Manning out for the entire year with a neck injury, the Colts started the season at 0-13. They seemed well on their way to getting the #1 overall pick (the Andrew Luck Sweepstakes) when they won 2 games in a row, and went right down to the wire in the final game of the season ........ a game in which it would have cost them that 1st overall pick had they won it, as the St. Louis Rams also went 2-14 that season. In that final game against the Jaguars I remember the Colts scoring a touchdown late in the 4th quarter to cut the deficit to 19-13, and then calling timeouts on defense to try to get the ball back when the Jaguars were trying to run out the clock.

It's not the same exact situation as the one being discussed now, but there is an element of "Are you we playing for now, or are we playing for the future?" element to both of them.

o






The great Curtis Painter was a huge part of the 2011 season ....... but it was Orlovsky that blew the last game, and secured the first pick !!!




o


In my rat's ass of an opinion, that 2011 season illustrated just how valuable Peyton Manning was to a team (any team that he plays/played for, not just the Colts.)

Larry Bird almost single-handedly took the 2nd-worst team in the NBA (the 1978-79 Boston Celtics) and led them to the best record in the NBA (61-21) in his rookie season in 1979-80 ...... and when Bird missed almost the entire 1988-89 season, the Celtics went from being a perennial juggernaut to being just an average team with a record of 42-40.

True greatness is not necessarily measured by how many championships a player's teams have won, but more so what happens to the team without that player (see LeBron James for another quintessential example of what happens to a team/franchise when that player leaves.)

o

[nate505]

But Wentz is Healthy. So why sit him? Because his ankles? Most players play through an injury. So we should sit Leonard too then. Let's sit a lot of other players too since they are dealing with injury.

Ballard made the decision to give up a first round pick.
No he didn't. He made the decision to give up a first round pick if Wentz plays 75% of his snaps, or 70% if the Colts make the playoffs.

So let's say by the 14th game Wentz needs to sit out the next four to get the Colts under that 75% mark, and the Colts have a horrible record like 3-10 or something and are well out of the playoff race.

What exactly is the benefit of playing him? At that point the negatives are plenty. Wentz could hurt himself the next four games in games that are meaningless for the Colts and the Colts would lose a potential top 5 or whatever pick all because...they want to follow some unwritten rules of a deal? Imagine the shitstorm that would follow if Wentz played in this scenario to the point where the Colts lost their first round pick, then he has like an ACL tear or some real significant injury. At that point the Colts wouldn't even have a high pick to fall back on.

If the deal was that Wentz was expected to play for anything other than injuries, they could have mandated that healthy scratches don't count for the snap count in the deal. Then if the Colts claimed he had a sore ankle or whatever to get him on the injury report one could make the claim the Colts were being unethical. In this case, the deal is pretty simple. He either plays 70/75% of his snaps or he doesn't.

If Ballard really wanted to trade a first round pick for the guy, he would have. These conditions are here for a reason. Either for injury, he sucks so bad that they'd rather play the backup, or the Colts suck so bad with him that they don't want to give up a first round pick.

[omahacolt]

You mean other states, where even in the states with the least population have hundreds of thousands of people, have people who suck in them? Brilliant fucking revelation there.

How exactly isn't that honoring the deal? The deal doesn't state that Wentz had to be healthy. I imagine it is being discussed in the front office as a potential move because I imagine the front office isn't that dumb.

that is because you are a shitty person apparently. if you have no integrity, your opinion is irrelevant to any debate or conversation.

[omahacolt]

Really? Wow, just blanket condemnation for an entire state for one persons opinion

i grew up in indiana and still have ties there. it is a very racist place and littered with methheads and garbage people.

if you don't fit that description then that is fine but don't pretend that isn't the truth

[omahacolt]

Lol. Omaha saying a fans opinion that the Colts should sit their white quarterback for the black back up so they can keep their first round pick means that all Colts fans are bad people and somehow racist is really dumb. Dumb things should be pointed out.

There’s no need to defend it.

well that isn't even close to the point but ok. someone feels guilty i see

[omahacolt]

All I know is there have been times when I have been at bar on 38th and Sherman and did not feel very welcome.....:D

oh no. was a white guy uncomfortable? are you ok? poor guy.

[CletusPyle]

oh no. was a white guy uncomfortable? are you ok? poor guy.

Thanks....but I'll be alright!

[nate505]

that is because you are a shitty person apparently. if you have no integrity, your opinion is irrelevant to any debate or conversation.

So the fact that the front office could potentially follow the deal to the letter of the deal is something that lacks integrity.

I mean sure, if you don't know the definition of the word.

[CaliColtsFan]

Such malice is just not fun to read.

[nate505]

Such malice is just not fun to read.

Welp, there's a bunch of shitty racist no good very bad people here.

So I've heard anyway.

[Hoopsdoc]

well that isn't even close to the point but ok. someone feels guilty i see

Yeah, that’s it. Lol.

Colts fans are no more racist than any other fan base.

You’re just really loony when it comes to race. Always have been.

[Hoopsdoc]

that is because you are a shitty person apparently. if you have no integrity, your opinion is irrelevant to any debate or conversation.

You keep saying it’s shitty but give no reason why. It’s almost like you’re full of shit.

If Philly wanted a 1st round pick, they should have held out for a first round pick with no strings attached.

If a situation arises where the Colts are clearly out of contention and Wentz is still playing hurt, they’d be fools NOT to bench him. They’d be hurting themselves for no reason.

[omahacolt]

Yeah, that’s it. Lol.

Colts fans are no more racist than any other fan base.

You’re just really loony when it comes to race. Always have been.

colts fans are clearly more racist than other fanbases. explain griff whalen otherwise?

sure you have pats fans that are the most racist but still, pretending indiana isn't a hotbed of racist trash is just ignorant. i live in north carolina, there are more proud racists here than anywhere i have ever been but that doesn't excuse indiana

[omahacolt]

You keep saying it’s shitty but give no reason why. It’s almost like you’re full of shit.

If Philly wanted a 1st round pick, they should have held out for a first round pick with no strings attached.

If a situation arises where the Colts are clearly out of contention and Wentz is still playing hurt, they’d be fools NOT to bench him. They’d be hurting themselves for no reason.

if wentz can't play then you sit him. if he can play, then you play him. it is that simple. let the chips fall where they may.

i say shitty and explain it pretty clearly. if you lack morals, integrity and ethics then you are a shitty person. do you not understand integrity? nate doesn't.

[Hoopsdoc]

colts fans are clearly more racist than other fanbases. explain griff whalen otherwise?

sure you have pats fans that are the most racist but still, pretending indiana isn't a hotbed of racist trash is just ignorant. i live in north carolina, there are more proud racists here than anywhere i have ever been but that doesn't excuse indiana

See, you’re a moron.

WTF does Griff Whalen have to do with anything? For every Griff Whalen there’s a Deon Cain or Roy Hall.

So now what?

[nate505]

if wentz can't play then you sit him. if he can play, then you play him. it is that simple. let the chips fall where they may.

i say shitty and explain it pretty clearly. if you lack morals, integrity and ethics then you are a shitty person. do you not understand integrity? nate doesn't.

Hopefully nobody as dumb as you is in the front office.

[omahacolt]

See, you’re a moron.

WTF does Griff Whalen have to do with anything? For every Griff Whalen there’s a Deon Cain or Roy Hall.

So now what?

like that is the fucking same. people thought cain and hall would be good. people worshiped the ground whalen walked on

[omahacolt]

Hopefully nobody as dumb as you is in the front office.

well one thing is for sure.

the colts front office has men running the show. not spineless cunts

[Hoopsdoc]

if wentz can't play then you sit him. if he can play, then you play him. it is that simple. let the chips fall where they may.

i say shitty and explain it pretty clearly. if you lack morals, integrity and ethics then you are a shitty person. do you not understand integrity? nate doesn't.

I don’t understand your version of integrity because it makes zero sense. Sitting the Tennessee version of Wentz if they’re already out of contention not only makes perfect sense, it would be the right thing to do.

Ballards job is to make the Colts better. It’s not to worry about which of the available options in the Wentz trade makes Omaha uncomfortable, even if it’s following the terms of the deal EXPLICITLY.

Honestly, your position on this makes no sense. It’s really freaking weird.

[Hoopsdoc]

like that is the fucking same. people thought cain and hall would be good. people worshiped the ground whalen walked on

You’re an idiot. People didn’t worship Hall?

Hell, Cain was the next Pierre Garçon right up until he was cut. You don’t remember that?

[nate505]

well one thing is for sure.

the colts front office has men running the show. not spineless cunts

Hopefully they're not stupid men. Which I hear can be found in all states in the union.

[Oldcolt]

'spineless cunts'? dumb insult.

[Butter]

Ebelose drawing up garbage defenses.

[Butter]

This team just fuckin folds on Defense I blame the coaching.

[Butter]

Fucking pathetic!

[Chaka]

I don’t understand your version of integrity because it makes zero sense. Sitting the Tennessee version of Wentz if they’re already out of contention not only makes perfect sense, it would be the right thing to do.

Ballards job is to make the Colts better. It’s not to worry about which of the available options in the Wentz trade makes Omaha uncomfortable, even if it’s following the terms of the deal EXPLICITLY.

Honestly, your position on this makes no sense. It’s really freaking weird.

Omaha is right. If Wentz is healthy and playing well, you can't sit him just to protect your draft pick. You just can't. Sitting him may help you in the short term, but long term you've pretty much ruined your ability to make such trades in the future. Nobody will trust you, so they'll demand all trade proceeds up front. That means you'll have to overpay and can't work with the flexibility of contingencies. That restricts your ability to make deals and gives your competitors an advantage because they'll have more negotiating options than you. Maintaining your reputation moving forward is worth far more than than the difference between a 1st and 2nd round pick.

Now. if Wentz gets hurt or sucks, then all bets are off. Then they can justify benching him to play somebody who might be a legitimate alternative moving forward. That means playing a prospect like Eason/Ehrlinger, not a retread like Hundley. If you start a one-year rental like Hundley over a healthy Wentz, then it looks like you're tanking on purpose.

[nate505]

Omaha is right. If Wentz is healthy and playing well, you can't sit him just to protect your draft pick. You just can't. Sitting him may help you in the short term, but long term you've pretty much ruined your ability to make such trades in the future. .
I'm not getting this argument at all. First of all, the deal is being satisfied. If the Eagles wanted a first round pick with no contingencies they should have negotiated it.

Second, if the Colts did something like this in they okay I really doubt the Eagles wouldn't have made this trade this year. It's not like they were getting better deals for Wentz be anyway.

[CletusPyle]

I'm not getting this argument at all. First of all, the deal is being satisfied. If the Eagles wanted a first round pick with no contingencies they should have negotiated it.

Second, if the Colts did something like this in they okay I really doubt the Eagles wouldn't have made this trade this year. It's not like they were getting better deals for Wentz be anyway.

Even though the NFL is a Billion dollar business, it is still in many ways a club, and the owners make deals all the time and how you honor those deals goes a long way is how the rest of the league thinks about your franchise. The deal the Colts and Eagles made was clearly made on Carson Wentz being healthy enough to play 75% of the season...I believe the Colts will honor that agreement.

[omahacolt]

I'm not getting this argument at all. First of all, the deal is being satisfied. If the Eagles wanted a first round pick with no contingencies they should have negotiated it.

Second, if the Colts did something like this in they okay I really doubt the Eagles wouldn't have made this trade this year. It's not like they were getting better deals for Wentz be anyway.

if the colts didn't want to give up a 1st, they shouldn't have offered it. see how that works?

you don't understand the argument because you lack integrity. lots of people do.

[omahacolt]

You’re an idiot. People didn’t worship Hall?

Hell, Cain was the next Pierre Garçon right up until he was cut. You don’t remember that?

no. you are wrong

[Hoopsdoc]

no. you are wrong

No, I’m not. You just lack any semblance of objectivity in matters like this.

Like I said, you’re a loon on this stuff.

[Chaka]

I'm not getting this argument at all. First of all, the deal is being satisfied. If the Eagles wanted a first round pick with no contingencies they should have negotiated it.

Second, if the Colts did something like this in they okay I really doubt the Eagles wouldn't have made this trade this year. It's not like they were getting better deals for Wentz be anyway.

Not sure if this will help illustrate the principle, but imagine you are a player with a contract that includes a $1M bonus for starting at least 15 of your team’s games in a season. You play well, but the team does poorly and ends up 4-10 heading into week 15. How would you feel if the team abruptly decides to bench you so they can start a lesser player just to avoid paying your bonus? When the time comes to negotiate your next contract, would you be interested in agreeing to such clauses? Perhaps more importantly, if you are a free agent considering several teams, and you learn that the Colts are treating players like this, wouldn’t that discourage you from choosing the Colts? Or at the very least wouldn’t that make you negotiate your contract differently with them?

The reality is that teams often bend over backwards for players in this situation. Even when the player legitimately doesn’t reach his incentive, but instead comes very close, teams often pay the incentive just to keep the player happy. Why would they do that? It only hurts them, and they’re not legally required to pay the bonus, right? That’s all technically true, but they pay it because they want happy players and they don’t want a reputation for being cheapskates who will take advantage of every loophole to screw over their negotiating partner (the player). It just doesn’t look good when you do this.

As fans it’s fun to see the Colts make a “good” trade where they get a lot of value without giving up much. But the truth is that in negotiating a deal with anyone, the best outcome is one where everyone profits – not one where one team dominates the deal, and the other team gets very little. If Carson Wentz plays well, even if the Colts have a bad season overall, you hand over the 1st round pick without hesitation. The Eagles delivered their part of the bargain, and so did the Colts. Everyone did well on the deal, and neither team will hesitate to work together again in the future.

[nate505]

if the colts didn't want to give up a 1st, they shouldn't have offered it. see how that works?

you don't understand the argument because you lack integrity. lots of people do.

They did offer it. If he plays 75% of his snaps. That little detail.... Are you just too stupid to grasp it?

[nate505]

Even though the NFL is a Billion dollar business, it is still in many ways a club, and the owners make deals all the time and how you honor those deals goes a long way is how the rest of the league thinks about your franchise. The deal the Colts and Eagles made was clearly made on Carson Wentz being healthy enough to play 75% of the season...I believe the Colts will honor that agreement.

It wasn't very clear that it was just "if he's healthy he'll play x amount of the season." It seems it was clearly made on his health, his effectiveness and the Colts being in the playoff race. If one of those factors isn't coming into play then they put that in so the Colts could recoop their pick.

[nate505]

Not sure if this will help illustrate the principle, but imagine you are a player with a contract that includes a $1M bonus for starting at least 15 of your team’s games in a season. You play well, but the team does poorly and ends up 4-10 heading into week 15. How would you feel if the team abruptly decides to bench you so they can start a lesser player just to avoid paying your bonus? When the time comes to negotiate your next contract, would you be interested in agreeing to such clauses? Perhaps more importantly, if you are a free agent considering several teams, and you learn that the Colts are treating players like this, wouldn’t that discourage you from choosing the Colts? Or at the very least wouldn’t that make you negotiate your contract differently with them?

The reality is that teams often bend over backwards for players in this situation. Even when the player legitimately doesn’t reach his incentive, but instead comes very close, teams often pay the incentive just to keep the player happy. Why would they do that? It only hurts them, and they’re not legally required to pay the bonus, right? That’s all technically true, but they pay it because they want happy players and they don’t want a reputation for being cheapskates who will take advantage of every loophole to screw over their negotiating partner (the player). It just doesn’t look good when you do this.

As fans it’s fun to see the Colts make a “good” trade where they get a lot of value without giving up much. But the truth is that in negotiating a deal with anyone, the best outcome is one where everyone profits – not one where one team dominates the deal, and the other team gets very little. If Carson Wentz plays well, even if the Colts have a bad season overall, you hand over the 1st round pick without hesitation. The Eagles delivered their part of the bargain, and so did the Colts. Everyone did well on the deal, and neither team will hesitate to work together again in the future.

I get the salary comparison, but that one is not quite the same. For one small bonuses like that are a drop in the bucket for an NFL team's revenue stream. There's not much loss for the team if they have to fork over another million to a player for just playing him.

Now, what if there were some real tangible reward for the team to sit the player for that last game? Like the team gets more cap space the next year or something if player X doesn't hit his bonus this year. At that point how much would we see the honor vs. the team benefit?

The bargain in this case is Wentz playing 75% of his snaps. That's it. The hope for the Colts is that he would be good enough and they would be in playoff contention. So far the first part is true...so far the latter part remains to be seen if it's true. If they are in playoff contention in a weak ass AFC South in Week 11, yeah, of course you play him. If they are 1-9 then...why play him? At that point he could get hurt and then you run the risk of having a hurt QB (who was playing in meaningless games) and not having a very high draft pick to brunt the damage to yourself. And at that point the Eagles will have got a high second round pick, so it's not like they got screwed on the deal here. On no planet is Carson Wentz worth a Top 5 pick.

[CletusPyle]

It wasn't very clear that it was just "if he's healthy he'll play x amount of the season." It seems it was clearly made on his health, his effectiveness and the Colts being in the playoff race. If one of those factors isn't coming into play then they put that in so the Colts could recoop their pick.

For the record...I totally get what you are saying, and the Colts are perfectly within their rights technically to do just what you are suggesting. But in my opinion, if Carson is healthy and remains their best option to win games, regardless of their record, he will play. Hopefully, it becomes a moot point as the Colts catch fire and win 8 or 9 of the remaining 12 games!

[nate505]

For the record...I totally get what you are saying, and the Colts are perfectly within their rights technically to do just what you are suggesting. But in my opinion, if Carson is healthy and remains their best option to win games, regardless of their record, he will play. Hopefully, it becomes a moot point as the Colts catch fire and win 8 or 9 of the remaining 12 games!

Agreed. I only would want to see this under the most dire of circumstances. If the Colts aren't within 3 or so games if the Titans in Week 11, that's where it's dire for me.

[Mr. Session]

Even though the NFL is a Billion dollar business, it is still in many ways a club, and the owners make deals all the time and how you honor those deals goes a long way is how the rest of the league thinks about your franchise. The deal the Colts and Eagles made was clearly made on Carson Wentz being healthy enough to play 75% of the season...I believe the Colts will honor that agreement.

First of all, what fucking club are you talking about? How would anyone here know the nature of the intimate relationships between the 32+++ owners in this league? In addition, it's not like the owners are negotiating trades amongst themselves, They hire General Managers and Team Presidents to handle that.

Second. When has Indianapolis ever came out ahead on a trade? Corey Simon?

[CletusPyle]

First of all, what fucking club are you talking about? How would anyone here know the nature of the intimate relationships between the 32+++ owners in this league? In addition, it's not like the owners are negotiating trades amongst themselves, They hire General Managers and Team Presidents to handle that.

Second. When has Indianapolis ever came out ahead on a trade? Corey Simon?

There are plenty of stories available about previous owner meetings and interactions between owners to lead any reasonable person to believe there is a private club like atmosphere among the owners, but you're right, I have no inside info on that, just stating my opinion for what it is worth. We have seen owners in the NBA and the MLB forced out because of damage they have done to their reputations, no reason to believe the NFL is any different, so being honest and having the respect of the other owners is very important.

I realize that the owners themselves, in most cases, do not get personally involved in every trade a team makes, in fact I almost added that in my comment to head off comments like yours, but regardless of an owners level of involvement, just saying "that was my GM not me", would be a pretty lame thing for an owner to say. Maybe someone should ask Ballard or Irsay about their plans to sit Wentz in case of a losing season to protect their first round pick....at least that way they would have them on record!

[Chaka]

I get the salary comparison, but that one is not quite the same. For one small bonuses like that are a drop in the bucket for an NFL team's revenue stream. There's not much loss for the team if they have to fork over another million to a player for just playing him.

Now, what if there were some real tangible reward for the team to sit the player for that last game? Like the team gets more cap space the next year or something if player X doesn't hit his bonus this year. At that point how much would we see the honor vs. the team benefit?

The bargain in this case is Wentz playing 75% of his snaps. That's it. The hope for the Colts is that he would be good enough and they would be in playoff contention. So far the first part is true...so far the latter part remains to be seen if it's true. If they are in playoff contention in a weak ass AFC South in Week 11, yeah, of course you play him. If they are 1-9 then...why play him? At that point he could get hurt and then you run the risk of having a hurt QB (who was playing in meaningless games) and not having a very high draft pick to brunt the damage to yourself. And at that point the Eagles will have got a high second round pick, so it's not like they got screwed on the deal here. On no planet is Carson Wentz worth a Top 5 pick.

You’re a bit of a moving target on this. Are you saying sit him just to save the draft pick, or sit him for other reasons? Those are two different things. If there are other legitimate reasons to sit Wentz that happen to also save the draft pick (injury, poor performance, etc.), then so be it. That’s fair game. And if the Colts are 1-9, then it’s somewhat unlikely (though admittedly not impossible) that Wentz will have been playing great. Perhaps you can make a credible argument at that point that the Colts need to explore other options and see how the team performs with a different QB. Again, in my view that means playing a prospect, not a retread. And you need to factor in the damage that this would cause to your long term relationship with Wentz.

The critical point is that you can’t sit him solely to save the draft pick. I’m not saying you have to play Wentz just because it will enable you to forfeit the 1st round pick, but you do need to deal with the other teams in good faith and handle Wentz the same regardless of whether the 1st round pick hangs in the balance. As Omaha said, you let the chips fall where they may.

Moreover, though some might disagree, even if your intentions are pure and you decide to sit Wentz for some reason that isn’t obvious, I think you also need to be aware of how it will look to other teams, and balance the desire to sit Wentz with any potential damage to public perception. For the Eagles, this has played out ideally so far – Wentz has played pretty well (so no reason to sit him), yet the Colts have been losing (given them a higher draft pick). If you pull the rug out from beneath them and try to sit Wentz for no good reason, they’ll never forgive you and other teams will certainly take note of this treatment as well.

Lastly, in my player contract example, the voluntary $1M bonus would absolutely come from the team’s future salary cap - the rules don't let you pay a player without taking away from your cap - so teams are doing this despite the negative impact on their cap (and I disagree that $1M is a drop in the bucket).

[Chaka]

Second. When has Indianapolis ever came out ahead on a trade? Corey Simon?

The Buckner and Nelson trades come immediately to mind.

[Butter]

We have seen owners in the NBA and the MLB forced out because of damage they have done to their reputations, no reason to believe the NFL is any different, so being honest and having the respect of the other owners is very important.

Yep, that is why the league forced Daniel Snyder to sell the WFT, oh wait.

[CletusPyle]

Yep, that is why the league forced Daniel Snyder to sell the WFT, oh wait.

Well he changed the name instead....:D

[Colts And Orioles]

Yep, that is why the league forced Daniel Snyder to sell the WFT ...... oh, wait.











Well, he changed the name instead ...... ) :D




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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G9n8Xp8DWf8


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