Colts to Sign Eric Fisher 1 yr / $9.4M

[Chaka]

Per Schefter:

https://twitter.com/AdamSchefter/status/1391781673986035717

So there's our LT for next year.

[Chromeburn]

Good! But when can he get on the field?

[Ironshaft]

I have little doubt that the staff and medical are sure that Fisher will be get on the field. Perhaps not at the beginning of the season but by the time it counts.

And, now, the off-season is a great success.

[Discflinger]

Let’s Go!

[rm1369]

Good signing if healthy

[AlwaysSunnyinIndy]

Good! But when can he get on the field?

Zak Keefer + Stephen Holder have both written that Fisher could possibly start practicing in September. Other reporters are saying there is no official timeline for return. Obviously the September timing would assume no setbacks with the rehab process.

https://twitter.com/zkeefer/status/1391786072573681667

Told Eric Fisher's "in a good spot" with his rehab. Colts won't rush the Achilles, but the thinking is he'll be back late in training camp/early September. Sam Tevi and Julién Davenport are two offseason signings that will compete at the position in the meantime.

https://twitter.com/HolderStephen/status/1391784029897338883

I was told the Colts are estimating late September is the timeframe when Fisher will be 100 percent. We shall see.

[TheMugwump]

Zak Keefer wrote that Fisher could possibly start playing towards the end of training camp / early September. That is probably the optimistic view.
Obviously that would assume no setbacks with the rehab process.

https://twitter.com/zkeefer/status/1391786072573681667

If he can be on the field by week 5, it is still a great signing. They can cobble something together for four weeks to keep Wentz upright, and then use the whole playbook afterwards. Having him for 3/4 of they year, plus the playoffs, would be exceptional.

[YDFL Commish]

Woo!!! Hoo!!!

[Ironshaft]

They can cobble something together for four weeks to keep Wentz upright.
Paging Jack Doyle.

Paging Jack Doyle.

Permanent Position = Left side tight

Permanent 1st Assignment = Blocking the defensive end

Permanent 2nd Assignment = Blocking the defensive end

Permanent 3rd Assignment = Okay, if the defensive end is contained, keep blocking the defensive end

Permanent 4th Assignment = If the defensive end is on the ground AND the offensive tackle is lying on him, go out for a pass.

[Chromeburn]

I have little doubt that the staff and medical are sure that Fisher will be get on the field. Perhaps not at the beginning of the season but by the time it counts.

And, now, the off-season is a great success.

Depends how long we have to ride out the season with Tevi, Davenport, or the guy we drafted last season. Is this a signing for just the playoffs and would Leno be a better signing?

[rcubed]

Fan-fucking-tastic! Hope he gets on field quickly without rushing the rehab.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[apballin]

Fuck yes!!

[Chaka]

At $9.4M, Fisher is being paid roughly $6.5 million less than Castonzo was scheduled to be paid. Fisher is also a few years younger than Castonzo, but obviously coming off a major injury. So the discount on a formerly solid LT is pretty steep, suggesting that the team/player are acknowledging a significant amount of risk regarding recovery and/or timing.

On the other hand, we apparently chose Fisher over Leno, who is healthy, apparently favored the Colts, and also has strong ties to the Colts organization. So unless Leno was making exorbitant contract demands, this suggests to me a fair amount of confidence that Fisher will return close to his former self.

I’ll add that when the final contract details come out, it would be nice if there’s a team option for a year or two attached, but its probably unlikely.

[Chromeburn]

At $9.4M, Fisher is being paid roughly $6.5 million less than Castonzo was scheduled to be paid. Fisher is also a few years younger than Castonzo, but obviously coming off a major injury. So the discount on a formerly solid LT is pretty steep, suggesting that the team/player are acknowledging a significant amount of risk regarding recovery and/or timing.

On the other hand, we apparently chose Fisher over Leno, who is healthy, apparently favored the Colts, and also has strong ties to the Colts organization. So unless Leno was making exorbitant contract demands, this suggests to me a fair amount of confidence that Fisher will return close to his former self.

I’ll add that when the final contract details come out, it would be nice if there’s a team option for a year or two attached, but its probably unlikely.

I doubt he would do that. There is always a demand for LTs. He will want to go into next offseason a FA. Fisher was tied for 16th best OT in the league last year. That is similar to what Castonzo was before Nelson. I expect that to rise some with Nelson next to him. Maybe say 12th. That’s serviceable with this line.

[Oldcolt]

So Ballard stays true to his draft board and hopefully fixes our defensive line in the draft. Then because he doesn’t overspend in free agency, pissing off a ton of freaks, he has plenty of money to address our last major issue LT. I appears that there is enough to extend Leonard/Smith. On top of that word is that we were Leno’s preferred team, a tribute to the whole organization and Ballards development is the locker room that anyone with a choice of NFL cities wants to live in Indianapolis. Now I’m hoping Tevi plays so well Fisher ends up being the best backup in football.

[Chaka]

I doubt he would do that. There is always a demand for LTs. He will want to go into next offseason a FA. Fisher was tied for 16th best OT in the league last year. That is similar to what Castonzo was before Nelson. I expect that to rise some with Nelson next to him. Maybe say 12th. That’s serviceable with this line.

Agreed, probably unlikely. I guess it also depends on the exercise price of the option - an option at $15M or even 18M for 2022 would be easier to extract than a $9.4M option obviously. And its a good point that if he's healthy, Fisher is likely to look better merely due to the fact that he's playing on the Colts OL.

[Dam8610]

I'm good with this. Former #1 overall pick, multiple time Pro Bowler, only 30 years old, and able to get him well under market because he suffered an injury last January that he should be back from near the start of the season. Plus this gives the Colts franchise rights at the end of 2021 should he perform well. I like everything about this, and although I still wish the Colts had Jenkins for the future, I'm now happy with the offseason overall.

[Chromeburn]

So Ballard stays true to his draft board and hopefully fixes our defensive line in the draft. Then because he doesn’t overspend in free agency, pissing off a ton of freaks, he has plenty of money to address our last major issue LT. I appears that there is enough to extend Leonard/Smith. On top of that word is that we were Leno’s preferred team, a tribute to the whole organization and Ballards development is the locker room that anyone with a choice of NFL cities wants to live in Indianapolis. Now I’m hoping Tevi plays so well Fisher ends up being the best backup in football.

Our dline is fixed? That was fast.

If Ballard stayed true to his draft board then he would have known a month ago he wasn’t going to take a tackle that would compete for the starting position. Therefore he could have had his choice at the beginning of free agency. Assuming he wasn’t going to sign Trent Williams, all other options would have been cheaper per year than Fisher and they would be healthy at the beginning of the year.

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/free-agents/left-tackle/

What I bet really happened, Ballard wanted to see how the draft panned out. All the tackles went between our first and second round. We are then forced to go to free agency. We overspend a little for a partial season from an injured player. I suspect Fisher was the cheaper option between he and Leno. But when completely healthy I think Fisher is slightly the better player.

Signing a LT was never going to threaten the upcoming contracts, we will have 100 million again next year.

And please find me the Colt fans who want him to overspend in free agency, I’ll wait.

[Brylok]

Well, that weight has been lifted and I'm now happy with the draft and everything else so far. A one year deal seems weird for a LT contract, but like everyone else has said, it's because of the injury and I just hope he's ready to go. Push that LT need to next year, maybe re-sign him (who knows), and just focus on winning the division this year. I feel relieved.

[Chromeburn]

Agreed, probably unlikely. I guess it also depends on the exercise price of the option - an option at $15M or even 18M for 2022 would be easier to extract than a $9.4M option obviously. And its a good point that if he's healthy, Fisher is likely to look better merely due to the fact that he's playing on the Colts OL.

Both sides probably like the one year. It’s popular around the league until the cap goes back to normal. Contracts should go back up then and there will be more spending. We can try him out and see if he fits. If we like him we may have the inside track. If he has a really good year there might be some demand for his services. Gives us another chance at filling the position through the draft.

[Dam8610]

Both sides probably like the one year. It’s popular around the league until the cap goes back to normal. Contracts should go back up then and there will be more spending. We can try him out and see if he fits. If we like him we may have the inside track. If he has a really good year there might be some demand for his services. Gives us another chance at filling the position through the draft.

This also gives the Colts franchise rights if he does really well. Could buy 2 years to fill the void or determine if Fisher is the guy for maybe 3-5 years.

[YDFL Commish]

This also gives the Colts franchise rights if he does really well. Could buy 2 years to fill the void or determine if Fisher is the guy for maybe 3-5 years.

I don't think that he will ever be worth the franchise tag. But they could use at as bargaining chip to a longer term deal.

[TheMugwump]

This also gives the Colts franchise rights if he does really well. Could buy 2 years to fill the void or determine if Fisher is the guy for maybe 3-5 years.

Not 100% on compensatory picks, but if he signs with another team in 2022, Indy can get one, even if he was only here a year, right?

[smitty46953]

Personally, I was hoping at this point for a 2-year deal for Charles Leno. I realize the ceiling is much higher with Fischer than Leno. However, Fisher missed a good portion of 2019 with a core injury, then this Achilles tear in January concerns me. I'm not a big fan of the huge risk with Fischer’s recovery. Our ability to protect Wentz now falls on turn-style Tevi filling in until our new 30-year-old Left Tackle who is rehabbing from one of the worst injuries an athlete can have (in terms of ability to rehab and return to form, historically) in record time and then be able to still play at a high level when he returns?

Most research I have read says it's an 11-month recovery, on average. Outliers are 9 months. For Fisher to play in September, he'd be an outlier. No one bets on outliers without acknowledging the risk they're taking. If Fisher's recovery is typical, he probably won't play until December. And if he has a setback, he might not play this season at all.

I would much rather take a chance of consistently average play starting game number one, from a healthy Leno all day over the uncertainty of Fisher's possible elite level of play. This is not my favorite FA move by Ballard. With this being a 1-year deal, I am less concerned with the $9.4M and more with his ability to actually play and do so at a high level. I am not a Ballard bootlicker as some or most here seem to be. I disagree with a lot of the things he is doing recently.

Hopefully our medical staff gets this one right?

:cool:

[Oldcolt]

Chromeburn. Putting an adjective such as hopefully before a statement about our defensive line being fixed alters the meaning of that statement to one of unknown but thinking it is within the realm of possibility. Never said it was fixed.

[Dam8610]

Personally, I was hoping at this point for a 2-year deal for Charles Leno. I realize the ceiling is much higher with Fischer than Leno. However, Fisher missed a good portion of 2019 with a core injury, then this Achilles tear in January concerns me. I'm not a big fan of the huge risk with Fischer’s recovery. Our ability to protect Wentz now falls on turn-style Tevi filling in until our new 30-year-old Left Tackle who is rehabbing from one of the worst injuries an athlete can have (in terms of ability to rehab and return to form, historically) in record time and then be able to still play at a high level when he returns?

Most research I have read says it's an 11-month recovery, on average. Outliers are 9 months. For Fisher to play in September, he'd be an outlier. No one bets on outliers without acknowledging the risk they're taking. If Fisher's recovery is typical, he probably won't play until December. And if he has a setback, he might not play this season at all.

I would much rather take a chance of consistently average play starting game number one, from a healthy Leno all day over the uncertainty of Fisher's possible elite level of play. This is not my favorite FA move by Ballard. With this being a 1-year deal, I am less concerned with the $9.4M and more with his ability to actually play and do so at a high level. I am not a Ballard bootlicker as some or most here seem to be. I disagree with a lot of the things he is doing recently.

Hopefully our medical staff gets this one right?

:cool:

They obviously did medicals on him, so they must feel comfortable with where he is in the rehab process. Also, everything I could find on Achilles tears said the healing time was 6 months on average, with 9 months being the high end time. I understand wanting the more certain thing in Leno, and this does have a higher risk factor, but it also has a higher reward factor, as Fisher is a better LT at his best than Leno.

[smitty46953]

They obviously did medicals on him, so they must feel comfortable with where he is in the rehab process. Also, everything I could find on Achilles tears said the healing time was 6 months on average, with 9 months being the high end time. I understand wanting the more certain thing in Leno, and this does have a higher risk factor, but it also has a higher reward factor, as Fisher is a better LT at his best than Leno.

Believe I mentioned everything you stated ? Only difference being in time frame for recovery. As I said hope our medical staff got this one right. :cool:

[apballin]

Can’t wait for the schedule release let’s fucking go!!!

[Puck]

Sooooo. we got 2 DE a QB AND a TE AND a top LT Damn. Ballard may know more than us


Just goes to show. None of us know the behind the scenes going ons.


This has been a freakin awesome off season!!!!

[rcubed]

Can’t wait for the schedule release let’s fucking go!!!


Where to?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Oldcolt]

Seems like a Ballard move to take the guy with the higher upside

[apballin]

Where to?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

To the games and enjoy this shit unlike last year being in empty ass stadium having to do air high fives and shit

[Dam8610]

Believe I mentioned everything you stated ? Only difference being in time frame for recovery. As I said hope our medical staff got this one right. :cool:

That and the difference that I seem to like the move a lot more, which was the main point I was making.

Sooooo. we got 2 DE a QB AND a TE AND a top LT Damn. Ballard may know more than us


Just goes to show. None of us know the behind the scenes going ons.


This has been a freakin awesome off season!!!!

Is the TE you were referring to Granson? Because a 4th round TE, especially in this class, doesn't exactly move the needle for me, at least not until he goes out on the field and proves it. Of the people who weren't hanging on Ballard's ballsack throughout the draft, I think pretty much all of us said that the draft would look a lot better with a FA signing at LT, and clearly Ballard was waiting for the comp pick portion of FA to expire to go shopping for his LT, and had that luxury because there were 3 options sitting there on Day 1 of the draft, and 4 the day after the draft (Fisher, Villanueva, Leno, Okung). That said, I'll continue to say Jenkins would've been the better pick at 21 until Paye proves me wrong with production. I hope he does, but I have my doubts.

[Racehorse]

Chromeburn. Putting an adjective such as hopefully before a statement about our defensive line being fixed alters the meaning of that statement to one of unknown but thinking it is within the realm of possibility. Never said it was fixed.

That would be an adverb.

[Racehorse]

That and the difference that I seem to like the move a lot more, which was the main point I was making.



Is the TE you were referring to Granson? Because a 4th round TE, especially in this class, doesn't exactly move the needle for me, at least not until he goes out on the field and proves it. Of the people who weren't hanging on Ballard's ballsack throughout the draft, I think pretty much all of us said that the draft would look a lot better with a FA signing at LT, and clearly Ballard was waiting for the comp pick portion of FA to expire to go shopping for his LT, and had that luxury because there were 3 options sitting there on Day 1 of the draft, and 4 the day after the draft (Fisher, Villanueva, Leno, Okung). That said, I'll continue to say Jenkins would've been the better pick at 21 until Paye proves me wrong with production. I hope he does, but I have my doubts.

You are obsessed with someone being right and someone being wrong. The normal people on here want Ballard's decisions to work out for the better. If that is hanging on his ballsack to you, then you have even more issues to deal with.

[Puck]

That and the difference that I seem to like the move a lot more, which was the main point I was making.



Is the TE you were referring to Granson? Because a 4th round TE, especially in this class, doesn't exactly move the needle for me, at least not until he goes out on the field and proves it. Of the people who weren't hanging on Ballard's ballsack throughout the draft, I think pretty much all of us said that the draft would look a lot better with a FA signing at LT, and clearly Ballard was waiting for the comp pick portion of FA to expire to go shopping for his LT, and had that luxury because there were 3 options sitting there on Day 1 of the draft, and 4 the day after the draft (Fisher, Villanueva, Leno, Okung). That said, I'll continue to say Jenkins would've been the better pick at 21 until Paye proves me wrong with production. I hope he does, but I have my doubts.


Thanks for reminding us that Ballard did indeed have a plan and he executed it. It didn't waste a pick on a RT hoping to move him to LT. He got a legitimate pro bowl LT AND 2 of the best DE's in the draft. And yes. The TE is someone I'm excited because he brings a different wrinkle to the offense. He can also play slot receiver. He's a little small for a TE but has multi position playmaking ability.

[Dam8610]

You are obsessed with someone being right and someone being wrong. The normal people on here want Ballard's decisions to work out for the better. If that is hanging on his ballsack to you, then you have even more issues to deal with.

There were and are valid criticisms of Ballard this offseason, but pretty much everyone here (the exceptions I've noted being myself, Chromeburn, and Smitty) has been all about deference to Ballard and the front office's roster building and decision making ability, as though they could do no wrong. I'll certainly give Ballard his due credit, he's built up talent on this roster quickly and well, especially given the extenuating circumstances he's had to deal with that likely would've sunk most GMs and teams. He's certainly a top tier GM today. But even the best GMs will tell you that if you're hitting 50% of the time, you're doing a fantastic job. That's why I don't get all of you pretending that no move Ballard makes could be wrong. He'll tell you himself he's probably going to get half or more of them wrong. Furthermore, I feel there's a great deal of validity in the criticisms that Ballard seems to avoid high end free agency to the detriment of the team, that he seems to overfocus on fixing one thing each offseason, and that he tends to leave some holes on the roster that he had opportunities to fix in that offseason. All of that happened at the DE position this offseason. It scares me that Paye is DE1 on a team that is supposed to be a contender, in part because he's raw even for a rookie and in part because DEs rarely come in and have early success as rookies. And if you don't believe Paye is DE1, go watch the fourth episode of "With the Next Pick" and listen to the words come out of Eberflus's mouth. I really hope the first thing they did with Paye was enroll him in martial arts classes, because a lot of great pass rushers, including Jared Allen who was a master technician, credit that with learning good hand usage, handfighting, and leverage, and those are the things Paye needs to work on the most.

[apballin]

There were and are valid criticisms of Ballard this offseason, but pretty much everyone here (the exceptions I've noted being myself, Chromeburn, and Smitty) has been all about deference to Ballard and the front office's roster building and decision making ability, as though they could do no wrong. I'll certainly give Ballard his due credit, he's built up talent on this roster quickly and well, especially given the extenuating circumstances he's had to deal with that likely would've sunk most GMs and teams. He's certainly a top tier GM today. But even the best GMs will tell you that if you're hitting 50% of the time, you're doing a fantastic job. That's why I don't get all of you pretending that no move Ballard makes could be wrong. He'll tell you himself he's probably going to get half or more of them wrong. Furthermore, I feel there's a great deal of validity in the criticisms that Ballard seems to avoid high end free agency to the detriment of the team, that he seems to overfocus on fixing one thing each offseason, and that he tends to leave some holes on the roster that he had opportunities to fix in that offseason. All of that happened at the DE position this offseason. It scares me that Paye is DE1 on a team that is supposed to be a contender, in part because he's raw even for a rookie and in part because DEs rarely come in and have early success as rookies. And if you don't believe Paye is DE1, go watch the fourth episode of "With the Next Pick" and listen to the words come out of Eberflus's mouth. I really hope the first thing they did with Paye was enroll him in martial arts classes, because a lot of great pass rushers, including Jared Allen who was a master technician, credit that with learning good hand usage, handfighting, and leverage, and those are the things Paye needs to work on the most.

Mathis should be able to help with that, but we got killed by QBs rolling out and scrambling around not many QBs should be able to outrun Paye

[Chromeburn]

That and the difference that I seem to like the move a lot more, which was the main point I was making.



Is the TE you were referring to Granson? Because a 4th round TE, especially in this class, doesn't exactly move the needle for me, at least not until he goes out on the field and proves it. Of the people who weren't hanging on Ballard's ballsack throughout the draft, I think pretty much all of us said that the draft would look a lot better with a FA signing at LT, and clearly Ballard was waiting for the comp pick portion of FA to expire to go shopping for his LT, and had that luxury because there were 3 options sitting there on Day 1 of the draft, and 4 the day after the draft (Fisher, Villanueva, Leno, Okung). That said, I'll continue to say Jenkins would've been the better pick at 21 until Paye proves me wrong with production. I hope he does, but I have my doubts.


https://theathletic.com/2579030/2021/05/11/an-explosive-mismatch-kylen-granson-gives-frank-reich-colts-a-new-weapon-at-tight-end/

The only problem is I don’t see how Granson gets on the field. We will need left side blocking help till Fisher can play. And you have Cambell and Hines as a third receiver.

[Chromeburn]

Mathis should be able to help with that, but we got killed by QBs rolling out and scrambling around not many QBs should be able to outrun Paye

The nice things about Paye is he should be a complete DE. Strong enough to bull rush and contain running QBs. Fast enough to get around strong tackles to get to less mobile QBs. Just can he develop and how long does it take? I still think we would benefit from a FA pass rusher. Let’s see if Houston resigns. Although I think he is almost over the hill.

[YDFL Commish]

You are obsessed with someone being right and someone being wrong. The normal people on here want Ballard's decisions to work out for the better. If that is hanging on his ballsack to you, then you have even more issues to deal with.

Look at Dammy's sig... that tells you how obsessed with himself being right and everyone else being wrong he is.

[Dam8610]

Thanks for reminding us that Ballard did indeed have a plan and he executed it. It didn't waste a pick on a RT hoping to move him to LT. He got a legitimate pro bowl LT AND 2 of the best DE's in the draft. And yes. The TE is someone I'm excited because he brings a different wrinkle to the offense. He can also play slot receiver. He's a little small for a TE but has multi position playmaking ability.

I said the move for Fisher was a good one, and the way he executed it was even better. But aren't you Mr. BPA? Because to me, Jenkins was BPA at 21. I know you're going to say "but Ballard and the Colts didn't", but we've already established that Ballard isn't infallible. One thing I will say for sure is that I value a combination of floor and ceiling much higher than what it appears most NFL front offices do. They all appear to want to swing for the fences every time, which is why it's not surprising that the first round bust rate is 50%. What's funny to me is how much you all get on me about looking at measureables, but don't recognize when Ballard is unnecessarily obsessing over measureables (in this case arm length for OTs). Based on his statements, I'm betting he had Rashawn Slater, the guy who shut down Chase Young, as a Guard because of arm length. There is a validity to looking at arm length to project a player to LT in the NFL, but I think that's more about failure rate than it is about requiring abnormally long arms as Ballard seems to. Basically, if a potential OT has shorter than 33" arms, he's probably going to have to kick inside to OG in the NFL. The failure rate on OTs with arms shorter than 33" is 100% over the last several decades according to others who have done research on that sort of thing. Jenkins and Slater both had longer than 33" arms and incredible tape. I know Jenkins played RT at OKSU, but so did Tyron Smith at USC, and he's been a pretty solid NFL LT. When you watch Jenkins on tape, you see LT traits. Great kickslide, excellent technician who occasionally toys with DEs with his technique, able to handle speed (demolished Ossai the whole game), able to handle power, doesn't cheat outside and leave inside rush lanes, finishes every play strong. When the testing numbers came back, that eliminated any doubt he could play LT at the next level, at least in my mind. His RAS score was 9.74 or something ridiculous like that. At 21, Jenkins was the best combination of floor and ceiling, and Paye was the best ceiling. I'd rather have the former, but since we now have the latter, I hope it works out.

[Dam8610]

Mathis should be able to help with that, but we got killed by QBs rolling out and scrambling around not many QBs should be able to outrun Paye

Doesn't matter if they can outrun Paye if he's stuck on a block.

Look at Dammy's sig... that tells you how obsessed with himself being right and everyone else being wrong he is.

LOL you mean because I ripped the one time in the history of the board that Omaha actually admitted he was wrong about something? That's more a commentary on him. I have no problem admitting when I'm wrong, feel free to dig through my post history. An example I know off the top of my head is that I was wrong about Nelson being a bad pick at 6. It's hard to project someone to be the next John Hannah, though.

[Oldcolt]

While Ballard isn't infallible it sure seem like you think you are Dam. I, like most of us freaks, like to think I think for myself. Me personally, I think Ballard is correct and you are wrong. Nothing more to it than that. I will say that I enjoy your strongly held opinions, without them this would be a dead board right now, so please keep telling me how stupid I am :) for not thinking like you do. It is fun to argue over shit that matters not.

[Puck]

I said the move for Fisher was a good one, and the way he executed it was even better. But aren't you Mr. BPA? Because to me, Jenkins was BPA at 21. I know you're going to say "but Ballard and the Colts didn't", but we've already established that Ballard isn't infallible. One thing I will say for sure is that I value a combination of floor and ceiling much higher than what it appears most NFL front offices do. They all appear to want to swing for the fences every time, which is why it's not surprising that the first round bust rate is 50%. What's funny to me is how much you all get on me about looking at measureables, but don't recognize when Ballard is unnecessarily obsessing over measureables (in this case arm length for OTs). Based on his statements, I'm betting he had Rashawn Slater, the guy who shut down Chase Young, as a Guard because of arm length. There is a validity to looking at arm length to project a player to LT in the NFL, but I think that's more about failure rate than it is about requiring abnormally long arms as Ballard seems to. Basically, if a potential OT has shorter than 33" arms, he's probably going to have to kick inside to OG in the NFL. The failure rate on OTs with arms shorter than 33" is 100% over the last several decades according to others who have done research on that sort of thing. Jenkins and Slater both had longer than 33" arms and incredible tape. I know Jenkins played RT at OKSU, but so did Tyron Smith at USC, and he's been a pretty solid NFL LT. When you watch Jenkins on tape, you see LT traits. Great kickslide, excellent technician who occasionally toys with DEs with his technique, able to handle speed (demolished Ossai the whole game), able to handle power, doesn't cheat outside and leave inside rush lanes, finishes every play strong. When the testing numbers came back, that eliminated any doubt he could play LT at the next level, at least in my mind. His RAS score was 9.74 or something ridiculous like that. At 21, Jenkins was the best combination of floor and ceiling, and Paye was the best ceiling. I'd rather have the former, but since we now have the latter, I hope it works out.

Jenkins WAS NOT the BPA at 21. Paye was

[Dam8610]

While Ballard isn't infallible it sure seem like you think you are Dam. I, like most of us freaks, like to think I think for myself. Me personally, I think Ballard is correct and you are wrong. Nothing more to it than that. I will say that I enjoy your strongly held opinions, without them this would be a dead board right now, so please keep telling me how stupid I am :) for not thinking like you do. It is fun to argue over shit that matters not.

I certainly don't think I'm infallible and I haven't called anyone stupid for not sharing my opinion. You hit the nail on the head with that last sentence, though.

Jenkins WAS NOT the BPA at 21. Paye was

I disagree for the aforementioned reasons. Time will bear out who is right, and quite frankly because of who the Colts drafted, I hope I turn out wrong, but I don't think I will.

[apballin]

Doesn't matter if they can outrun Paye if he's stuck on a block.



LOL you mean because I ripped the one time in the history of the board that Omaha actually admitted he was wrong about something? That's more a commentary on him. I have no problem admitting when I'm wrong, feel free to dig through my post history. An example I know off the top of my head is that I was wrong about Nelson being a bad pick at 6. It's hard to project someone to be the next John Hannah, though.

So you would feel better with a Jenkins at tackle and Justin Houston at End?

I’d take Fischer /Paye over that any day

Gotta look at the possibilities

[Dam8610]

So you would feel better with a Jenkins at tackle and Justin Houston at End?

Yes. I think Odeyingbo is going to be better than Paye anyway, so the experienced, productive Houston at DE and the NFL ready Jenkins lining up at LT next to Nelson appeals to me a lot more than the raw Paye being DE1 with the injured Eric Fisher hopefully being back in time for Week 1 and providing slightly better play than Jenkins.

[apballin]

Yes. I think Odeyingbo is going to be better than Paye anyway, so the experienced, productive Houston at DE and the NFL ready Jenkins lining up at LT next to Nelson appeals to me a lot more than the raw Paye being DE1 with the injured Eric Fisher hopefully being back in time for Week 1 and providing slightly better play than Jenkins.

Houston’s play was severely declining and there’s no way you can say Fischer is only slightly better than Jenkins if he was that dam good he would’ve been gone by 21

Give me the solid LT

And the DE with upside

Odengbo was a luxury pick at this point

[Dam8610]

Houston’s play was severely declining and there’s no way you can say Fischer is only slightly better than Jenkins if he was that dam good he would’ve been gone by 21

Give me the solid LT

And the DE with upside

Odengbo was a luxury pick at this point

Jared Allen and Marques Colston were 7th round picks. Alvin Kamara was a 3rd round pick. Jeff Saturday was a UDFA. NFL scouts don't always get it right.

[Oldcolt]

Dam Our pass rush sucked last year Is it your take that Houston is capable of improvement with aging, because if he isn't and we had signed him our pass rush does not improve and we would be fucked. No guarantees with Paye but every player was just potential at some point. More fun to root for a young guy, watching the ones who succeed is special as a fan.

[Dam8610]

Dam Our pass rush sucked last year Is it your take that Houston is capable of improvement with aging, because if he isn't and we had signed him our pass rush does not improve and we would be fucked. No guarantees with Paye but every player was just potential at some point. More fun to root for a young guy, watching the ones who succeed is special as a fan.

My take is Odeyingbo is going to likely be the better of the two drafted DEs, and that drafting Jenkins and Odeyingbo and signing Houston would've been better especially in the short term but also in the long term than drafting Paye and Odeyingbo and signing Fisher. Really, whatever other pieces you want to throw in there, for me it's basically Jenkins is IMO the better player than Paye.

[Hoopsdoc]

Jared Allen and Marques Colston were 7th round picks. Alvin Kamara was a 3rd round pick. Jeff Saturday was a UDFA. NFL scouts don't always get it right.

Jared Allen was a 4th round pick.

[Dam8610]

Jared Allen was a 4th round pick.

You're right. I thought I'd heard him talked about as a 7th round pick before somewhere and didn't bother to check. Still, 4th round is a long way from where he should've been in the 2004 draft, which is Top 10-15. Side note: wow that class was loaded.

[JAFF]

While Ballard isn't infallible it sure seem like you think you are Dam. I, like most of us freaks, like to think I think for myself. Me personally, I think Ballard is correct and you are wrong. Nothing more to it than that. I will say that I enjoy your strongly held opinions, without them this would be a dead board right now, so please keep telling me how stupid I am :) for not thinking like you do. It is fun to argue over shit that matters not.

What Ballard has available is getting input from the scouts and the college coaches of these draft picks. I dont know what the coaches have done in the age of covid, in the past the coaches had interviews with the future picks at the combine. Its not all arm length and bench presses. I recall Polian was sold on Dallas Clark on the interview. Polian saw the talent, but was impress by Clark’s character. Same reason the Colts took Edge over Ricky Williams, it wasnt about talent as it was his character.

All the tape measures and video tape cant give you the character, desire, or drive of an individual. That comes from person to person interaction. Ballard knows Fisher. There is an added dimension to his decision to trust a known quantity rather than a rookie at LT. IF Fisher can recover, he is a better choice.

I understand the obsession with numbers, but football is all about players and how they go about their profession. Some one needs to see how many current Colts were captains on their college teams. Bet you there are a few

[Spike]

My take is Odeyingbo is going to likely be the better of the two drafted DEs, and that drafting Jenkins and Odeyingbo and signing Houston would've been better especially in the short term but also in the long term than drafting Paye and Odeyingbo and signing Fisher. Really, whatever other pieces you want to throw in there, for me it's basically Jenkins is IMO the better player than Paye.

I really like Jenkins too, just not as a left tackle. Houston is getting too fucking old. Me and Spears like Paye, obviously you have doubts about him and that's ok. I've added a video of Spears talking about Paye. If I remember correctly, I ranked Sewell as my number one tackle, and you had him ranked a lot lower. Yet Sewell was the first LT taken in the draft. These fucking scouts know a hell of a lot more than you and me. I watch a lot of Pac 12 games due to the fact that I live in Commifornia and Sewell was a beast. I'm no fucking expert on these prospects coming out of the draft, I readily admit that. But that's ok, there is a lot more going on than either you or I know about. At the end of the day, we are just fans, we don't get paid for being right or wrong. You have takes that make you look like a smart MF if you are right. You liked Russel Wilson over RGIII, and after the first year you were right. RGIII was a hell of a talent until he got fucked up in his rookie year. Be happy we drafted two top DE's that have the potential to be game changers, Jenkins is not a game changer and never will be. Outside of Sewell and Slater, I wasn't very high on any of the other linemen doing jack shit at the left tackle position, including Darrisaw. Oh well, it's fun to debate this shit.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6JptL7uUq3A

[Racehorse]

I really like Jenkins too, just not as a left tackle. Houston is getting too fucking old. Me and Spears like Paye, obviously you have doubts about him and that's ok. I've added a video of Spears talking about Paye. If I remember correctly, I ranked Sewell as my number one tackle, and you had him ranked a lot lower. Yet Sewell was the first LT taken in the draft. These fucking scouts know a hell of a lot more than you and me. I watch a lot of Pac 12 games due to the fact that I live in Commifornia and Sewell was a beast. I'm no fucking expert on these prospects coming out of the draft, I readily admit that. But that's ok, there is a lot more going on than either you or I know about. At the end of the day, we are just fans, we don't get paid for being right or wrong. You have takes that make you look like a smart MF if you are right. You liked Russel Wilson over RGIII, and after the first year you were right. RGIII was a hell of a talent until he got fucked up in his rookie year. Be happy we drafted two top DE's that have the potential to be game changers, Jenkins is not a game changer and never will be. Outside of Sewell and Slater, I wasn't very high on any of the other linemen doing jack shit at the left tackle position, including Darrisaw. Oh well, it's fun to debate this shit.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6JptL7uUq3A
I am hoping we have drafted our Mathis and Freeney this year. That is one element that we have sorely missed.

[Dam8610]

I really like Jenkins too, just not as a left tackle. Houston is getting too fucking old. Me and Spears like Paye, obviously you have doubts about him and that's ok. I've added a video of Spears talking about Paye. If I remember correctly, I ranked Sewell as my number one tackle, and you had him ranked a lot lower. Yet Sewell was the first LT taken in the draft. These fucking scouts know a hell of a lot more than you and me. I watch a lot of Pac 12 games due to the fact that I live in Commifornia and Sewell was a beast. I'm no fucking expert on these prospects coming out of the draft, I readily admit that. But that's ok, there is a lot more going on than either you or I know about. At the end of the day, we are just fans, we don't get paid for being right or wrong. You have takes that make you look like a smart MF if you are right. You liked Russel Wilson over RGIII, and after the first year you were right. RGIII was a hell of a talent until he got fucked up in his rookie year. Be happy we drafted two top DE's that have the potential to be game changers, Jenkins is not a game changer and never will be. Outside of Sewell and Slater, I wasn't very high on any of the other linemen doing jack shit at the left tackle position, including Darrisaw. Oh well, it's fun to debate this shit.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6JptL7uUq3A

I just don't get the idea that these scouts know so much more than us, especially if you can watch the same games (they do have the advantage of college All-22, which is the holy grail of scouting) and learn what makes a player good and what doesn't. Also, I'm obviously not the only person who thinks Jenkins is a LT, because the Bears released a perfectly solid starting caliber NFL LT to plug Jenkins in there. I know you disparaged the Bears front office before, and I'm inclined to agree with you on their overall incompetence, but they had one hell of a draft, and by your logic, they are an NFL scouting group that believes in Jenkins's ability to play LT. I think they're right, they got 2 of the top 15 players in this draft, and they filled 2 of the 3 most important positions in football with them.

I am hoping we have drafted our Mathis and Freeney this year. That is one element that we have sorely missed.

Irsay is hoping for that too. I will say this: I hate Kwity Paye the draft pick because his floor is bust, but I love Kwity Paye the human, because he appears to have a great deal of internal motivation to succeed as well as such an amazing story, and I hope that that translates into Kwity Paye the player developing an arsenal of pass rush moves and becoming the devastating edge defender he could be at his ceiling.

[Spike]

I just don't get the idea that these scouts know so much more than us, especially if you can watch the same games (they do have the advantage of college All-22, which is the holy grail of scouting) and learn what makes a player good and what doesn't. Also, I'm obviously not the only person who thinks Jenkins is a LT, because the Bears released a perfectly solid starting caliber NFL LT to plug Jenkins in there. I know you disparaged the Bears front office before, and I'm inclined to agree with you on their overall incompetence, but they had one hell of a draft, and by your logic, they are an NFL scouting group that believes in Jenkins's ability to play LT. I think they're right, they got 2 of the top 15 players in this draft, and they filled 2 of the 3 most important positions in football with them.



Irsay is hoping for that too. I will say this: I hate Kwity Paye the draft pick because his floor is bust, but I love Kwity Paye the human, because he appears to have a great deal of internal motivation to succeed as well as such an amazing story, and I hope that that translates into Kwity Paye the player developing an arsenal of pass rush moves and becoming the devastating edge defender he could be at his ceiling.

Well, the Bears might be right about Jenkins, time will tell. Hell, I've been wrong more times than I care to talk about.

[Ironshaft]

I just don't get the idea that these scouts know so much more than us..
And that is the fatal flaw almost all of us have.

I play golf. I have played golf since my teenager years going on 35 years at this point. At one point in my late 20s, I held a 10 handicap on PGA rated courses which means I was a pretty good normal golfer but nowhere near good enough to try the pros.

I got to play one round with a pro at a pro-am (Brad Bryant) who in 1997 was the 81st ranked player on the PGA tour by money. That was the highest ranking he ever had on the tour. Sufficient to say, he was only a marginal PGA golfer.

As we played, we talked through his logic on each holes and the factors that he used to determine his landing zone. His understanding of the game was LIGHT YEARS better than mine. He considered factors that I did not even comprehend existed. The type of grass, how it was mowed, how the wind was folding the grass over, how the bunker was raked, his reading of the green was so much better than mine.

In 2012, I was a little league coach for my son's 5th/6th grade team. I coached the O-Line and the D-Line. I played both O-Line and D-Line through high school, attempted to walk onto a Big 10 football team and spent three weeks in summer practice with Purdue before being cut, have watched and studied O-Line and D-Line play for decades as a fan.

Before the season, I went to talk to the high school O-Line and D-Line coaches (two different folks) about how they wanted technique taught at our level to then filter up to the middle school and high school teams.

Again, night and day about their understanding of technique, footwork training drills and mindsets that mine. The depth of what they understood about what makes for a successful skillset and mindset was much deeper than mine.

I have been in my profession for 25 years. I get kids out of college all the time disagreeing with my logic and recommendations on how to do task completion only to come back a couple of weeks later asking for advice since their project is all messed up.

There is a light year difference in those who DO and those who WATCH.

[Puck]

I just don't get the idea that these scouts know so much more than us, especially if you can watch the same games (they do have the advantage of college All-22, which is the holy grail of scouting) and learn what makes a player good and what doesn't. Also, I'm obviously not the only person who thinks Jenkins is a LT, because the Bears released a perfectly solid starting caliber NFL LT to plug Jenkins in there. I know you disparaged the Bears front office before, and I'm inclined to agree with you on their overall incompetence, but they had one hell of a draft, and by your logic, they are an NFL scouting group that believes in Jenkins's ability to play LT. I think they're right, they got 2 of the top 15 players in this draft, and they filled 2 of the 3 most important positions in football with them.



Irsay is hoping for that too. I will say this: I hate Kwity Paye the draft pick because his floor is bust, but I love Kwity Paye the human, because he appears to have a great deal of internal motivation to succeed as well as such an amazing story, and I hope that that translates into Kwity Paye the player developing an arsenal of pass rush moves and becoming the devastating edge defender he could be at his ceiling.

This is exactly why you get so much push back. You ALWAYS think you're smarter than everyone else When you can see you're not, more people will take you more seriously

[Oldcolt]

It is somewhat insulting to think that what I do as a hobby I’m just as good as someone who has committed their lives to a job. No way my hour every few days is as good as spending 8 hours or more a day every day studying these dudes. Expertise takes time.

[apballin]

Not only that like I said earlier they get to sit down and talk to these guys talk to their coaches, parents, and teammates it’s not only what we see in game day or pro day

[AlwaysSunnyinIndy]

On the other hand, we apparently chose Fisher over Leno, who is healthy, apparently favored the Colts, and also has strong ties to the Colts organization. So unless Leno was making exorbitant contract demands, this suggests to me a fair amount of confidence that Fisher will return close to his former self.



Per his agent, Leno has agreed to a 1 year, $5M deal with Washington.

https://twitter.com/RapSheet/status/1392508265704140801

The Washington Football Team has its left tackle: The WFT is signing former Bears LT Charles Leno to a 1-year deal worth $5M, per Ron Slavin

[Dam8610]

And that is the fatal flaw almost all of us have.

I play golf. I have played golf since my teenager years going on 35 years at this point. At one point in my late 20s, I held a 10 handicap on PGA rated courses which means I was a pretty good normal golfer but nowhere near good enough to try the pros.

I got to play one round with a pro at a pro-am (Brad Bryant) who in 1997 was the 81st ranked player on the PGA tour by money. That was the highest ranking he ever had on the tour. Sufficient to say, he was only a marginal PGA golfer.

As we played, we talked through his logic on each holes and the factors that he used to determine his landing zone. His understanding of the game was LIGHT YEARS better than mine. He considered factors that I did not even comprehend existed. The type of grass, how it was mowed, how the wind was folding the grass over, how the bunker was raked, his reading of the green was so much better than mine.

In 2012, I was a little league coach for my son's 5th/6th grade team. I coached the O-Line and the D-Line. I played both O-Line and D-Line through high school, attempted to walk onto a Big 10 football team and spent three weeks in summer practice with Purdue before being cut, have watched and studied O-Line and D-Line play for decades as a fan.

Before the season, I went to talk to the high school O-Line and D-Line coaches (two different folks) about how they wanted technique taught at our level to then filter up to the middle school and high school teams.

Again, night and day about their understanding of technique, footwork training drills and mindsets that mine. The depth of what they understood about what makes for a successful skillset and mindset was much deeper than mine.

I have been in my profession for 25 years. I get kids out of college all the time disagreeing with my logic and recommendations on how to do task completion only to come back a couple of weeks later asking for advice since their project is all messed up.

There is a light year difference in those who DO and those who WATCH.

I understand your point, but I would counter with: scouts watch, same as us. Yes, understanding of the game is important, but there are ways to get that. The subtle nuances of the best handfighting techniques, how to engage and defeat a blocker (DL), or how to reestablish hands and reanchor once a rusher has successfully defeated hands or gotten the blocker off balance (OL) are in fact techniques and worries best left to the coaching staff to understand and develop in the player, I would 100% agree with that as a big part of their job is player development. But scouting is more like checking off boxes on a quality check. You want to see the good, the great, the bad, and the ugly to determine what you think a player can and can't do. Then you get testing numbers, and if something stands out as unexpected, you cross check again. Of course the NFL front offices get a deluge of information we just don't get access to, and I think the Colts' employment and deployment of Brian Decker is brilliant and necessary in the modern NFL. Obviously that additional information is going to change their evaluations some, probably mostly by taking some players off their board. To me, that is the biggest difference between pro scouting departments and people who learn it on their own. After all, there are independent NFL draft experts, and they get a lot of things right that the NFL gets wrong (of course it goes the other way as well). I'm not saying that I'm one of those, but there also has been crossover between NFL front offices and independent draft experts, so I guess the question would be where do you draw the line?

[Oldcolt]

There is no line. We all get to have our opinions, hold them strongly and argue over it. It is great because in the end it is just a game-the best game but still just entertainment. I am opinionated enough that every once in a blue moon I get it right over the pros. Even a blind squirrel finds a nut now and then.

[Racehorse]

I understand your point, but I would counter with: scouts watch, same as us. Yes, understanding of the game is important, but there are ways to get that. The subtle nuances of the best handfighting techniques, how to engage and defeat a blocker (DL), or how to reestablish hands and reanchor once a rusher has successfully defeated hands or gotten the blocker off balance (OL) are in fact techniques and worries best left to the coaching staff to understand and develop in the player, I would 100% agree with that as a big part of their job is player development. But scouting is more like checking off boxes on a quality check. You want to see the good, the great, the bad, and the ugly to determine what you think a player can and can't do. Then you get testing numbers, and if something stands out as unexpected, you cross check again. Of course the NFL front offices get a deluge of information we just don't get access to, and I think the Colts' employment and deployment of Brian Decker is brilliant and necessary in the modern NFL. Obviously that additional information is going to change their evaluations some, probably mostly by taking some players off their board. To me, that is the biggest difference between pro scouting departments and people who learn it on their own. After all, there are independent NFL draft experts, and they get a lot of things right that the NFL gets wrong (of course it goes the other way as well). I'm not saying that I'm one of those, but there also has been crossover between NFL front offices and independent draft experts, so I guess the question would be where do you draw the line?

Another factor is what will sell where they are playing. What are the coaches looking for, and what is the organizational philosophy. What one franchise needs is different from another one. Fan bases expect a certain quality for their team. For example, Pitt players and Cheats players are somewhat different.

[Dam8610]

This is exactly why you get so much push back. You ALWAYS think you're smarter than everyone else When you can see you're not, more people will take you more seriously

I don't really understand this. We're discussing opinions, I'm not just going to change mine because there are more or louder opinions from others. If I'm trying to change anyone else's opinion, I'm going to cite evidence that can be verified. Again, I'm not claiming to be an expert, but the best experts get it wrong more than half the time. That makes the margin between the best experts and random chance (which comes in at about 22% success) about 20%.

It is somewhat insulting to think that what I do as a hobby I’m just as good as someone who has committed their lives to a job. No way my hour every few days is as good as spending 8 hours or more a day every day studying these dudes. Expertise takes time.

You're right, expertise does take time. According to people who study such things, expertise takes approximately 10,000 hours of investment in any subject to obtain. I'm no Dane Brugler, but I'd say over 16 years of doing my own film analysis of prospects, I've put in about half that amount of time. It would be neat to put Dane Brugler levels of time into it, but I don't have that much time available to me.

There is no line. We all get to have our opinions, hold them strongly and argue over it. It is great because in the end it is just a game-the best game but still just entertainment. I am opinionated enough that every once in a blue moon I get it right over the pros. Even a blind squirrel finds a nut now and then.

When does it become more than "a blind squirrel finds a nut"?

[JAFF]

I don't really understand this. We're discussing opinions, I'm not just going to change mine because there are more or louder opinions from others. If I'm trying to change anyone else's opinion, I'm going to cite evidence that can be verified. Again, I'm not claiming to be an expert, but the best experts get it wrong more than half the time. That makes the margin between the best experts and random chance (which comes in at about 22% success) about 20%.



You're right, expertise does take time. According to people who study such things, expertise takes approximately 10,000 hours of investment in any subject to obtain. I'm no Dane Brugler, but I'd say over 16 years of doing my own film analysis of prospects, I've put in about half that amount of time. It would be neat to put Dane Brugler levels of time into it, but I don't have that much time available to me.



When does it become more than "a blind squirrel finds a nut"?

When you get paid by an NFL team and be in the room on draft day

[Dam8610]

Another factor is what will sell where they are playing. What are the coaches looking for, and what is the organizational philosophy. What one franchise needs is different from another one. Fan bases expect a certain quality for their team. For example, Pitt players and Cheats players are somewhat different.

Oh absolutely situation matters. It can be the most important factor in success or failure of a prospect.

[Dam8610]

When you get paid by an NFL team and be in the room on draft day

Really? You don't think Daniel Jeremiah or Dane Brugler has more knowledge than a scouting intern who was "in the room on draft day"? Because that's a foolish opinion.

[Oldcolt]

When does it become more than a blind squirrel finds a nut? For me never. I don’t care enough to spend the 10K hours.

[Racehorse]

I don't really understand this. We're discussing opinions, I'm not just going to change mine because there are more or louder opinions from others.

Your opinion seems to always be the loudest.

[Spike]

Really? You don't think Daniel Jeremiah or Dane Brugler has more knowledge than a scouting intern who was "in the room on draft day"? Because that's a foolish opinion.

Now this is where you really lose me Dam. A scouting intern? Do you really think these NFL teams who are run by billionaires rely on a scouting intern? What the fuck are you talking about? Ballard really liked Paye, and he was not going to be swayed by some scouting intern. SMDH!

These so called draft gurus don't talk to the players, they don't know how they think or how committed they are. Mel Kiper said Mahomes would be a bust and the Colts should have drafted Trent Dilfer. I like Jeremiah, but he is no smarter than most of us on this board, well maybe he is, but not by much.

[Dam8610]

Your opinion seems to always be the loudest.

Seems louder to me if 3 or 4 people are responding back with the same opinion, but could just be me.

Now this is where you really lose me Dam. A scouting intern? Do you really think these NFL teams who are run by billionaires rely on a scouting intern? What the fuck are you talking about? Ballard really liked Paye, and he was not going to be swayed by some scouting intern. SMDH!

Who said anything about Ballard being swayed by a scouting intern? I certainly didn't. My comment about a scouting intern was in response to JAFF's comment that seemed to imply that "being in the room on draft day" was the only thing that could make one an expert, which is ludicrous on its face, because there are some people in some of those rooms with almost no experience, and let's not forget that Ryan Grigson ran several draft rooms, and he might be the worst drafting GM ever. I challenge anyone to read The Beast and tell me that Dane Brugler doesn't have as much or more knowledge as an area scout who is "in the room" with 1-5 years of experience.

These so called draft gurus don't talk to the players, they don't know how they think or how committed they are. Mel Kiper said Mahomes would be a bust and the Colts should have drafted Trent Dilfer. I like Jeremiah, but he is no smarter than most of us on this board, well maybe he is, but not by much.

This is what Kiper said about Mahomes. (https://www.news-herald.com/sports/espn-analyst-mel-kiper-says-patrick-mahomes-has-highest-ceiling/article_601bbddb-dba0-53da-aca6-7338517320e3.html) Seems pretty spot on to me. As for Dilfer, he was an NFL average starting QB and would've been way more valuable than Trev Alberts was.

[JAFF]

Really? You don't think Daniel Jeremiah or Dane Brugler has more knowledge than a scouting intern who was "in the room on draft day"? Because that's a foolish opinion.

Right. Sure. Must be hard, never being wrong

[Dam8610]

Right. Sure. Must be hard, never being wrong

Guessing you think you know from experience?

[JAFF]

Guessing you think you know from experience?

I’m wrong on occasion, watch my spellink.

But I dont claim to be something that I’m not. And those two guys you mentioned earlier, never heard of them. Which NFL teams have them in their scouting office?

[Luck4Reich]

https://www.colts.com/news/eric-fisher-signs-left-tackle-quenton-nelson-kansas-city-chiefs-free-agency


Eric Fisher talks about joining the Colts^^^

[Dam8610]

I’m wrong on occasion, watch my spellink.

But I dont claim to be something that I’m not. And those two guys you mentioned earlier, never heard of them. Which NFL teams have them in their scouting office?

What did I claim to be that I'm not?

Your standard is arbitrary and therefore not worth acknowledgement.

[JAFF]

What did I claim to be that I'm not?

Your standard is arbitrary and therefore not worth acknowledgement.

You are full of shit, and too stupid to notice

[Dam8610]

You are full of shit, and too stupid to notice

You know you've won the argument when all the other side has to respond with is a personal attack.

[apballin]

You know you've won the argument when all the other side has to respond with is a personal attack.

So here’s my hypothetical for you Dam, you’re sitting in the draft room and it comes down to Jenkins and Paye

To which the scouting team tells you:
Paye is the hardest worker in the draft he’ll be the first guy in and the last guy out of the building all his teammates love him and would go to war for him

Jenkins: Big lazy half ass worker with a shitty attitude but turns it on come game day

Who you gonna draft even with the film you’ve watched?

[JAFF]

You know you've won the argument when all the other side has to respond with is a personal attack.

An observation, Mr Knowitall. You can pretend to be a professional scout, dont expect others to feed your obsession

[Spike]

Seems louder to me if 3 or 4 people are responding back with the same opinion, but could just be me.



Who said anything about Ballard being swayed by a scouting intern? I certainly didn't. My comment about a scouting intern was in response to JAFF's comment that seemed to imply that "being in the room on draft day" was the only thing that could make one an expert, which is ludicrous on its face, because there are some people in some of those rooms with almost no experience, and let's not forget that Ryan Grigson ran several draft rooms, and he might be the worst drafting GM ever. I challenge anyone to read The Beast and tell me that Dane Brugler doesn't have as much or more knowledge as an area scout who is "in the room" with 1-5 years of experience.



This is what Kiper said about Mahomes. (https://www.news-herald.com/sports/espn-analyst-mel-kiper-says-patrick-mahomes-has-highest-ceiling/article_601bbddb-dba0-53da-aca6-7338517320e3.html) Seems pretty spot on to me. As for Dilfer, he was an NFL average starting QB and would've been way more valuable than Trev Alberts was.

Griggs was an absolute fucking joke as a GM. Let's not confuse his sorry ass with Ballard. Ballard knows what he is doing.

Kiper gave the Chiefs a C plus in that same draft. If he was so high on Mahomes, how the hell could he give them any lower than a B plus.

As far as Alberts goes, yeah, terrible draft pick. But Dilfer was not an average QB, he was a below average QB. Hell, even when he won a SB, they told him, just don't lose it for us. Let the defense take care of this. Personally, I don't want a QB like that.

[Luck4Reich]

Griggs was an absolute fucking joke as a GM. Let's not confuse his sorry ass with Ballard. Ballard knows what he is doing.

Kiper gave the Chiefs a C plus in that same draft. If he was so high on Mahomes, how the hell could he give them any lower than a B plus.

As far as Alberts goes, yeah, terrible draft pick. But Dilfer was not an average QB, he was a below average QB. Hell, even when he won a SB, they told him, just don't lose it for us. Let the defense take care of this. Personally, I don't want a QB like that.

Yeah that Ravens defense was so damn good they probably could have won the Super Bowl with Curtis Painter. Lol

[Dam8610]

So here’s my hypothetical for you Dam, you’re sitting in the draft room and it comes down to Jenkins and Paye

To which the scouting team tells you:
Paye is the hardest worker in the draft he’ll be the first guy in and the last guy out of the building all his teammates love him and would go to war for him

Jenkins: Big lazy half ass worker with a shitty attitude but turns it on come game day

Who you gonna draft even with the film you’ve watched?

In that hypothetical, it would make sense to take Paye, but if we're talking reality, that's a huge negative assumption to make about Jenkins, especially because I don't think someone who plays like Jenkins does could just "turn it on for gameday". That takes effort and work, both in practice and on gameday.

An observation, Mr Knowitall. You can pretend to be a professional scout, dont expect others to feed your obsession

I never pretended to be a professional scout, jackass, but I guess keep hating since you don't seem to have anything better to do.

Griggs was an absolute fucking joke as a GM. Let's not confuse his sorry ass with Ballard. Ballard knows what he is doing.

Kiper gave the Chiefs a C plus in that same draft. If he was so high on Mahomes, how the hell could he give them any lower than a B plus.

As far as Alberts goes, yeah, terrible draft pick. But Dilfer was not an average QB, he was a below average QB. Hell, even when he won a SB, they told him, just don't lose it for us. Let the defense take care of this. Personally, I don't want a QB like that.

No one is confusing Grigson with Ballard, I was pointing out that Grigson ran draft rooms and his scouting knowledge is clearly, shall we say, limited.

Maybe Kiper hated the rest of their draft that year? I don't really know or care why he gave a draft grade, those are pretty meaningless in my opinion anyway.

All I said was Dilfer would've been a better draft pick than Alberts. Kiper was right about that. He was a league average starting QB (those aren't very good) for about 10 years, which is way more value than a bust LB that flamed out in 3 years.

[Spike]

No one is confusing Grigson with Ballard, I was pointing out that Grigson ran draft rooms and his scouting knowledge is clearly, shall we say, limited.

Maybe Kiper hated the rest of their draft that year? I don't really know or care why he gave a draft grade, those are pretty meaningless in my opinion anyway.

All I said was Dilfer would've been a better draft pick than Alberts. Kiper was right about that. He was a league average starting QB (those aren't very good) for about 10 years, which is way more value than a bust LB that flamed out in 3 years.

LOL, you are giving Griggs way too much credit for saying his knowledge was limited. Hell, that orangatan would do a better job.

Draft grades are meaningless, but that is what those draft guru's do.

On a side note, think about this, if the Colts would have drafted Dilfer and he made the Colts an average team, we wouldn't have been able to draft Peyton fucking Manning. Dilfer was taken in 1994. Things actually worked out better for us not taking Dilfer. But to your point, yes Dilfer would have definitely been the better pick at the time. I thank God Tobin didn't take him.

[omahacolt]

I doubt he would do that. There is always a demand for LTs. He will want to go into next offseason a FA. Fisher was tied for 16th best OT in the league last year. That is similar to what Castonzo was before Nelson. I expect that to rise some with Nelson next to him. Maybe say 12th. That’s serviceable with this line.

i disagree that castonzo was 16th before nelson. he was always underappreciated by some of you

[IndyNorm]

Our dline is fixed? That was fast.

If Ballard stayed true to his draft board then he would have known a month ago he wasn’t going to take a tackle that would compete for the starting position. Therefore he could have had his choice at the beginning of free agency. Assuming he wasn’t going to sign Trent Williams, all other options would have been cheaper per year than Fisher and they would be healthy at the beginning of the year.

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/free-agents/left-tackle/

What I bet really happened, Ballard wanted to see how the draft panned out. All the tackles went between our first and second round. We are then forced to go to free agency. We overspend a little for a partial season from an injured player. I suspect Fisher was the cheaper option between he and Leno. But when completely healthy I think Fisher is slightly the better player.

Signing a LT was never going to threaten the upcoming contracts, we will have 100 million again next year.

And please find me the Colt fans who want him to overspend in free agency, I’ll wait.

Well put. Glad LT was addressed and if Fisher comes back healthy he obviously answers the bell. Seems like he gave us a part year discount as well.

Of course if he's unable to come back at high level then we're SOL, and if we don't re-sign him then we're back to the same problem again next offseason.

[IndyNorm]

Per his agent, Leno has agreed to a 1 year, $5M deal with Washington.

https://twitter.com/RapSheet/status/1392508265704140801

You mean we could have signed our starting LT and hoarded ~$5M in cap space in case the league finally starts handing out additional wins for being well below the cap? WTF Ballard? :cool:

[omahacolt]

this is a great signing if we get an extension. if he plays half a year and walks then it was just an ok signing.

[Dam8610]

LOL, you are giving Griggs way too much credit for saying his knowledge was limited. Hell, that orangatan would do a better job.

Spike, how could you say such things about a "draft expert" who was "in the room"?! JAFF would be ashamed.

On a side note, think about this, if the Colts would have drafted Dilfer and he made the Colts an average team, we wouldn't have been able to draft Peyton fucking Manning. Dilfer was taken in 1994. Things actually worked out better for us not taking Dilfer. But to your point, yes Dilfer would have definitely been the better pick at the time. I thank God Tobin didn't take him.

That's a very valid point, but you're definitely using the benefit of hindsight to come to that conclusion. I'm sure Bill Tobin didn't want to lose his job and was trying to get the best player for the 1994 Colts rather than thinking "I need to set up my successor to draft that freshman QB at Tennessee". Who knows, though? After all, according to JAFF, Tobin is a big brain draft expert as well, and Kiper is a nobody, even though we all clearly know who was right about that scenario in 1994.

[rcubed]

Well put. Glad LT was addressed and if Fisher comes back healthy he obviously answers the bell. Seems like he gave us a part year discount as well.

Of course if he's unable to come back at high level then we're SOL, and if we don't re-sign him then we're back to the same problem again next offseason.
isnt KC paying 3M on top of what we are paying?

[Oldcolt]

Dam you are full of shit. Kiper wasn’t right. The best player, by far, left on the board was Bryant Young, We know you are full of it because the people who actually put their money where their mouth is never ever hire these so called draft experts like Kiper to run their draft.

[Dam8610]

Dam you are full of shit. Kiper wasn’t right. The best player, by far, left on the board was Bryant Young, We know you are full of it because the people who actually put their money where their mouth is never ever hire these so called draft experts like Kiper to run their draft.

Mike Mayock

[Oldcolt]

Mike Mayock

I stand corrected. He is a former NFL player so he has more expertise than your average couch potato talking head. He was recently ranked as the worst drafting GM in the NFL so yes, you can hire a draft analyst if your desire is to be the worst drafting team in the league, I'll give you that.

[Chromeburn]

I stand corrected. He is a former NFL player so he has more expertise than your average couch potato talking head. He was recently ranked as the worst drafting GM in the NFL so yes, you can hire a draft analyst if your desire is to be the worst drafting team in the league, I'll give you that.

Mayock shouldn’t get all the blame. I think Gruden makes the final call there.

[Dam8610]

I stand corrected. He is a former NFL player so he has more expertise than your average couch potato talking head. He was recently ranked as the worst drafting GM in the NFL so yes, you can hire a draft analyst if your desire is to be the worst drafting team in the league, I'll give you that.

Daniel Jeremiah is a former NFL scout as well and Dane Brugler has received multiple offers to join NFL front offices that he's turned down. Independent draft experts are well respected in NFL circles.

[smitty46953]

This shit ever going to stop? :cool:

[Colts And Orioles]

Is this shit ever going to stop ??? ) :cool:





o


On a website for sports fans ??? Not in a million years.

o

[YDFL Commish]

Mike Mayock

Wasn't Andrew Berry, Browns GM, also a draft analyst?

[Spike]

https://www.stampedeblue.com/2021/5/25/22453321/lt-eric-fishers-new-contract-figures-revealed-colts-now-have-a-projected-14-76m-of-cap-space

Fisher's cap hit this year is only 6.49 million. Not bad at all.

[rcubed]

2022 automatically voids next year.

What does that mean? Why is it part of the contract if it automatically voids?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[JAFF]

This shit ever going to stop? :cool:

Ahh no scott.

[Dam8610]

2022 automatically voids next year.

What does that mean? Why is it part of the contract if it automatically voids?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

So that part can count against 2022 cap, which is stupid to me. They still have $15 million of cap space, there's no real difference between that and $12.5 million for roster churn coverage purposes.

[rcubed]

So that part can count against 2022 cap, which is stupid to me. They still have $15 million of cap space, there's no real difference between that and $12.5 million for roster churn coverage purposes.


Ah, I see.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[JAFF]

So that part can count against 2022 cap, which is stupid to me. They still have $15 million of cap space, there's no real difference between that and $12.5 million for roster churn coverage purposes.

Apparently they know their cap liabilities better than a fan

[smitty46953]

Personally, I was hoping at this point for a 2-year deal for Charles Leno. I realize the ceiling is much higher with Fischer than Leno. However, Fisher missed a good portion of 2019 with a core injury, then this Achilles tear in January concerns me. I'm not a big fan of the huge risk with Fischer’s recovery. Our ability to protect Wentz now falls on turn-style Tevi filling in until our new 30-year-old Left Tackle who is rehabbing from one of the worst injuries an athlete can have (in terms of ability to rehab and return to form, historically) in record time and then be able to still play at a high level when he returns?

Most research I have read says it's an 11-month recovery, on average. Outliers are 9 months. For Fisher to play in September, he'd be an outlier. No one bets on outliers without acknowledging the risk they're taking. If Fisher's recovery is typical, he probably won't play until December. And if he has a setback, he might not play this season at all.

I would much rather take a chance of consistently average play starting game number one, from a healthy Leno all day over the uncertainty of Fisher's possible elite level of play. This is not my favorite FA move by Ballard. With this being a 1-year deal, I am less concerned with the $9.4M and more with his ability to actually play and do so at a high level. I am not a Ballard bootlicker as some or most here seem to be. I disagree with a lot of the things he is doing recently.

Hopefully our medical staff gets this one right?

:cool:

Wish we had went Leno after watching Fisher this year. He just signed a 3-year extension with the WFT.

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/washington-football-team-signs-left-tackle-charles-leno-to-a-three-year-extension/