Remaining available free agent OTs

[Ironshaft]

Colts have $24m in free cap space.

However, $4m is reserved for rookies, $2m for the practice squad, $2m for spots 52 and 53 on the roster and around $3m for in season churn space leaving around $13m available to sign a free agent left OT.

Still available:

Russell Okung, 33 years old, started 131 games, last 3 years PFF grades: 73.0/62.4/78.4, previous contract averaged $13.250m annually

Eric Fisher, 30 years old, started 113 games, last 3 years PFF grades: 80.0/64.5/73.4, previous contract averaged $12.000m annually

Alejandro Villanueva, 33 years old, started 90 games, last 3 years PFF grades: 74.6/74.0/81.2, previous contract averaged $6.000m annually

For comparison, Anthony Castonzo's last 3 years PFF grades: 73.4/81.3/77.7

Whomever we would sign, I would try to sign a two year deal because without a 1st round pick next year (assuming Wentz works out), then our ability to get a "ready to start from day one" OT goes down a lot. We would need a bridge year for the pick to be able to learn and grow before taking over in 2023.

As an alternative scenario, at right OT we could sign Ricky Wagner and slide Smith to left side but I would prefer to keep Smith where he is playing well at.

Come on Ballard, sign one soon! Don't put Wentz's health on the line!

[Chromeburn]

From Zac Keefer

This was important, from late last night: Ballard said the Colts' plan as of right now is to "probably leave the four guys alone" on the o-line.

Been saying all along you don't move Quenton Nelson out to tackle unless its in a pinch. Keep him where he's best.

My bet is on Fischer because of the KC connection.

[Puck]

From Zac Keefer

Yep posted the video of him saying it so this is true. And I 100% agree with that

[IndyNorm]

From Zac Keefer



My bet is on Fischer because of the KC connection.

As long as Fischer's healed up and ready to go to start the season then that will work.

[Thorgrim]

I’m gonna be royally pissed if Ballard doesn’t have one of these guys signed quick. You bet your ass that other teams will be courting their services now.

[Chromeburn]

I’m gonna be royally pissed if Ballard doesn’t have one of these guys signed quick. You bet your ass that other teams will be courting their services now.

Don’t you have faith in Sam Tevi?

[YDFL Commish]

Fisher is the only guy I would take a flyer on.

[apballin]

Fuckin bullshit it came to this I’m still fuckin pissed

All those free agents were washed which is why they’re sitting there in the first place now we’re forced to resort to some unwanted leftovers to protect the blindside of a qb with confidence issues sounds fucking fantastic

[YDFL Commish]

Fuckin bullshit it came to this I’m still fuckin pissed

All those free agents were washed which is why they’re sitting there in the first place now we’re forced to resort to some unwanted leftovers to protect the blindside of a qb with confidence issues sounds fucking fantastic

No, they are sitting there because of the reduced salary cap. That could actually play into our favor.

[smitty46953]

Just something to ponder, we gotta be better off than we were in 2013 :eek:


Colts O-Line starters in 2013
Anthony Castonzo
Hugh Thornton
Samson Satele
Mike McGlynn
Gosder Cherilus

[JAFF]

From Zac Keefer



My bet is on Fischer because of the KC connection.

IF he can be ready to play for the season

[YDFL Commish]

Just something to ponder, we gotta be better off than we were in 2013 :eek:


Colts O-Line starters in 2013
Anthony Castonzo
Hugh Thornton
Samson Satele
Mike McGlynn
Gosder Cherilus

I just puked into my cocktail... thank you!!!

[Dam8610]

Sign Fisher long term. They can get by a couple weeks with Davenport at LT if absolutely necessary.

[Butter]

Sign Fisher long term. They can get by a couple weeks with Davenport at LT if absolutely necessary.

I agree, we will need him for at least 2 years if not 3. No 1st rounder next year makes finding a long-term LT much harder in the draft. The OL didn't totally implode when AC went down at the end of the season, so they can weather a few games of a scrub filling in. I don't see a much better solution, short of running with Tevi as the Colts have hinted at (smoke I pray)

[JAFF]

Thw Colts have plenty of TEs, they can put 2 of them on the left side and run unbalanced

[Hoopsdoc]

Just something to ponder, we gotta be better off than we were in 2013 :eek:


Colts O-Line starters in 2013
Anthony Castonzo
Hugh Thornton
Samson Satele
Mike McGlynn
Gosder Cherilus

Yeesh.

Thats why Andrew Luck is sitting on his couch scratching his balls.

[AlwaysSunnyinIndy]

https://twitter.com/RapSheet/status/1389251546861473798

The Bears will be releasing LT Charles Leno, source said, their starter the last seven seasons. A surprise move. Chicago drafted OK St’s Teven Jenkins in the second round and plans to play him on the left side. Leno now available for LT-needy teams.

https://twitter.com/FieldYates/status/1389254768204394498

Being released after the draft normally puts veterans in a tough spot to find work, but LT Charles Leno should have suitors.

He's started every game over the past 5 seasons and is just 29 years old.

The Colts, Panthers and Steelers are all teams with possible LT needs.

[Chaka]

https://twitter.com/ZachHicks2/status/1389256274219573248

I’ve watched a good bit of Sam Tevi and Charles Leno Jr. I’m comfortable with saying Leno is much better, especially as a pass protector. When you consider that Leno played for Chris Strausser at Boise State.... it makes too much sense

[Chromeburn]

https://twitter.com/RapSheet/status/1389251546861473798



https://twitter.com/FieldYates/status/1389254768204394498

This is a no brainer.

[Dam8610]

https://twitter.com/RapSheet/status/1389251546861473798



https://twitter.com/FieldYates/status/1389254768204394498

Of course they're starting Jenkins on the left side. He's good enough to handle it. That's why he should've been picked at 21 and not 39.

Anyway, thanks Bears for giving Ballard another bailout option.

[JAFF]

This is a no brainer.

Well ya screwed that up the minute you typed it. Its a no brainer that you NEVER say, “ well that’s a no brainer“ because fate will hit you between the eyes and it wont happen.

:eek:

[Ironshaft]

Charles Leno Jr, 7th round pick by CHI in 2014 (246 overall)

Only credited with 29 snaps his rookie year but jumped to 919 in 2015 and was a full time starter since.

PFF grades:

2020 - 74.9
2019 - 58.6
2018 - 75.7
2017 - 78.7
2016 - 70.1
2015 - 68.5

Except for a down year in 2019, really solid/good performance every year.

Had a new contract starting in 2017 that averaged $9.250m per year.

Would be a great guy to sign for 3-years (age 30, 31 and 32 seasons) in order to let Ballard find the long-term replacement.

A 4th quality option....go get one of them, Ballard! :)

[Oldcolt]

Someone likes Leno would be fine

[Butter]

I am all for signing Leno, with the other pieces on our OL he could be fine. Do it Chris!

[AlwaysSunnyinIndy]

Villanueva to Ravens.

Not surprising. He visited with them before the draft. Ravens wanted to hold off on the signing until it no longer affected comp picks.

https://twitter.com/RapSheet/status/1389583893125341189

The Ravens have signed veteran LT Alejandro Villanueva to a 2-year, $14M deal with $8M fully guaranteed, source said. The former Steelers LT recently visited Baltimore.

[Brylok]

Villanueva to Ravens.

Not surprising. He visited with them before the draft. Ravens wanted to hold off on the signing until it no longer affected comp picks.

https://twitter.com/RapSheet/status/1389583893125341189

He looked completely washed up whenever I saw him play last year. I'm tempted to say "good luck with that", but I don't wish any luck to the Ravens. He's still better than Tevi though.

[AlwaysSunnyinIndy]

Fisher is scheduled to come in for a free agent visit


https://twitter.com/TomPelissero/status/1389711475682385925

Former Chiefs left tackle Eric Fisher is set to visit the Colts later this week, per source.

[Butter]

Fisher is scheduled to come in for a free agent visit


https://twitter.com/TomPelissero/status/1389711475682385925

Excellent.

[JAFF]

Excellent.

Next question, when would fischer be ready?

[Workhorse]

Per Stephen Holder the Colts have been in contact with free agent LT Charles Leno

[Puck]

Fisher is scheduled to come in for a free agent visit


https://twitter.com/TomPelissero/status/1389711475682385925

Well imagine that. Ballard does have a plan

[JAFF]

Well imagine that. Ballard does have a plan

He must have a link to this site. I bet he reads it every day.

[Butter]

Next question, when would fischer be ready?

I have heard reports of mid-august, but it would not be surprising if he missed the start of the season. Not ideal, but probably better than running with what we have all year.

[Chromeburn]

Well imagine that. Ballard does have a plan

Backup plan?

Also some team just lost their LT to an Achilles tear in off season workouts. So we better move if we want a selection.

[Ironshaft]

Why has Ballard not signed a veteran free agent LT to start and protect Wentz's blindside?

I understood waiting until after 4pm on Tuesday so the signing did not count against comp picks but I was sort of expecting a deal signed by 5pm that day.

Why is he waiting?

I just looked at all the bottom salary cap teams in the league that will still need to cut folks and none of them are cutting their starting LT to put new guys into the mix.

Of the 11 lowest cap space teams, one already cut their starting LT (Da Bears), 9 have cap situations with their left tackle that it would cost them more in cap space to cut them than keep them and the last is SEA with 35 year old Duane Brown whom I cannot imagine Ballard is "waiting on."

Sign Leno if you are worried about Fisher not being ready for the season.

Sign Fisher if you think he has higher upside and will be ready early in the season.

Sign Okung if you don't like either of the above guys.

It is not rocket science.

Tevi, Davenport nor Holder can start the season at left OT. Dot. Period. The. End. There is nothing in their backstories that gives even an inkling that any of them are a potential quality solution.

Why is Ballard waiting?

[Spike]

Why has Ballard not signed a veteran free agent LT to start and protect Wentz's blindside?

I understood waiting until after 4pm on Tuesday so the signing did not count against comp picks but I was sort of expecting a deal signed by 5pm that day.

Why is he waiting?

I just looked at all the bottom salary cap teams in the league that will still need to cut folks and none of them are cutting their starting LT to put new guys into the mix.

Of the 11 lowest cap space teams, one already cut their starting LT (Da Bears), 9 have cap situations with their left tackle that it would cost them more in cap space to cut them than keep them and the last is SEA with 35 year old Duane Brown whom I cannot imagine Ballard is "waiting on."

Sign Leno if you are worried about Fisher not being ready for the season.

Sign Fisher if you think he has higher upside and will be ready early in the season.

Sign Okung if you don't like either of the above guys.

It is not rocket science.

Tevi, Davenport nor Holder can start the season at left OT. Dot. Period. The. End. There is nothing in their backstories that gives even an inkling that any of them are a potential quality solution.

Why is Ballard waiting?

Damn good question. I have to believe he is waiting on the medicals to come back on Fisher. But he does need to sign Leno or Fisher. He has got to know that the hacks he has now are not going to cut it. He has the money and he needs to spend it on a quality LT.

[Oldcolt]

Ballard seems to rush nothing. He isn’t nearly as freaked out as this board is. Relax. We are watching a championship defense being put together for the first time I can remember since the 1970’s. If this works it will be the best ride the Indy Colts have ever seen.

[Spike]

Ballard seems to rush nothing. He isn’t nearly as freaked out as this board is. Relax. We are watching a championship defense being put together for the first time I can remember since the 1970’s. If this works it will be the best ride the Indy Colts have ever seen.

While I agree with you to an extent, he needs to be freaked out with our LT position. It is one of the most important positions on a football team. You don't trade for Wentz and then have shit players at the LT position. Protecting Wentz HAS to be a priority. There is still time to sign a FA at the position, so I am withholding judgement. Ballard is 1000 times better than that sweaty POS Griggs, but he is not above critizism if we go into the season with the FA hacks he signed. Tevi????? Give me a damn break please! And who the hell is Davenport? Wasn't he a 3rd baseman for the SF Giants 40 years ago?

[IndyNorm]

https://coltswire.usatoday.com/2021/05/07/indianapolis-colts-eric-fisher-visit-deal-contract/

Well shit. Whether it's Fisher or Leno, Ballard needs to figure it out. We can't afford to get Wentz killed.

[Racehorse]

https://coltswire.usatoday.com/2021/05/07/indianapolis-colts-eric-fisher-visit-deal-contract/

Well shit. Whether it's Fisher or Leno, Ballard needs to figure it out. We can't afford to get Wentz killed.

I don't think we have heard the last on Fisher coming here.

[IndyNorm]

I don't think we have heard the last on Fisher coming here.

I certainly hope so. Starting the season with Turnstyle Tevi at LT will in all likelihood be a disaster.

[ukcolt]

I don't have an issue starting with Tevi, so long as that is in the knowledge that Fisher will be back for midseason. Tevi did start last year for the Chargers, was he great, no, was he playing next to Nelson, no he wasn't, should his play be better purely because of that I would say yes. Tevi is likely to be one of the better back up LT options in the league, he is a former low end starting LT.

[Oldcolt]

Until the season starts and Left tackle proves to be an issue I am not going to worry about it. Ballard/Reich both understand the importance, even more than us, they will address it.

As far as our pass rush, the more I think on it the more I am hopeful that Turay makes a big move this year. He looked good prior to his ankle injury. The first surgery didn't work so total pass on how he looked last year. If the second surgery is successful I believe he will make a big impact. We need to develop our own defensive lineman. Impossible to buy a defensive line. I'm damn excited to watch this line develop in real time. I'm hoping for the same kind of experience I had watching the offensive line develop. You could see that we were on our way to a great offensive line even when we were 1-5. I have to pinch myself sometimes to really realize that the Colts are committed to developing a top defense. I love that we are no longer this friggin' finesse team in any way, shape or form. We are being built to physically dominate the lines. Damn that's good to see.

[Chromeburn]

I don't have an issue starting with Tevi, so long as that is in the knowledge that Fisher will be back for midseason. Tevi did start last year for the Chargers, was he great, no, was he playing next to Nelson, no he wasn't, should his play be better purely because of that I would say yes. Tevi is likely to be one of the better back up LT options in the league, he is a former low end starting LT.

He was pretty bad. Tevi is extremely athletic for a LT and if he puts it together he might be pretty good. But right now he is not good. He falls down a lot, reaches, and just plays with bad technique. He should be on the bench developing. He is a liability big time. Nelson can’t protect his outside shoulder and teams will attack him. Tevi was ranked near the bottom of all LTs, not just starters. I think he was 74.

https://www.stampedeblue.com/2021/5/3/22418082/live-film-room-w-michael-peterson-breaking-down-sam-tevis-game

[Oldcolt]

Agree about Tevi. Just want to point out that we pay our coaches to coach and teach. If he has the athletic ability and the correct attitude he could make himself some huge coin and make us all happy. Low probability it definitely not zero.

[Chromeburn]

Agree about Tevi. Just want to point out that we pay our coaches to coach and teach. If he has the athletic ability and the correct attitude he could make himself some huge coin and make us all happy. Low probability it definitely not zero.

The Chargers do the same thing. They laughed at the turnstile Tevi comments last year. After one season they dropped him and drafted a rookie this year.

LT has a huge impact. When Castonzo was out it was like a 4 win difference between when he was on the field. Why gamble on such a long shot when you have plenty of money to sign a much better rated vet. You want to develop him, I'm ok with that, do it from the bench.

Ballard goes into every season with these obvious holes. Two years ago it was WR, last year it was pass rush, this year will be LT until they sign someone. I get that he wants to develop through the draft, but it takes time to develop rookies and it seems we are constanly rebuilding some position group. And the whole reason we are here drafting DE's with our top picks is because we struck out on the previous ones.

[YDFL Commish]

The Chargers do the same thing. They laughed at the turnstile Tevi comments last year. After one season they dropped him and drafted a rookie this year.

LT has a huge impact. When Castonzo was out it was like a 4 win difference between when he was on the field. Why gamble on such a long shot when you have plenty of money to sign a much better rated vet. You want to develop him, I'm ok with that, do it from the bench.

Ballard goes into every season with these obvious holes. Two years ago it was WR, last year it was pass rush, this year will be LT until they sign someone. I get that he wants to develop through the draft, but it takes time to develop rookies and it seems we are constanly rebuilding some position group. And the whole reason we are here drafting DE's with our top picks is because we struck out on the previous ones.

Glass half empty or glass half full? Many teams would love to go into the post draft process with only one hole to fill.

[Chromeburn]

Glass half empty or glass half full? Many teams would love to go into the post draft process with only one hole to fill.

I’m sure shitty teams do. Think the Steelers, Pats, Chiefs, Saints think that way. Do we model ourselves after shit teams or the best teams in the league?

That has nothing to do with our inability to field the most complete team we can. Especially considering how much we sit under the cap every year. Maybe we would have gone further in the playoffs if we had more help at passrush. I hate to interrupt all the Ballard hero worship here, but we are not doing everything we can. And I hear mixed messages out of the team. We aren’t there yet, the locker room isn’t there yet, then I hear it’s a special team, they have a good feeling about this team. Which is it? People on here act like we have won something, as if we are sitting on top a couple Super Bowl wins. We haven’t won anything. Finally, is WR fixed? Can TY and Cambell stay healthy? If not we are Pittman and a bunch of nobodies again. Is passrush fixed? We drafted two guys, one of whom may not even play this year. We arguably got weaker at dline and oline this year.

It’s almost like Ballard doesn’t want to lose that first round pick next year and wants to make sure Wentz gets under that 75% mark.

[IndyNorm]

I don't have an issue starting with Tevi, so long as that is in the knowledge that Fisher will be back for midseason. Tevi did start last year for the Chargers, was he great, no, was he playing next to Nelson, no he wasn't, should his play be better purely because of that I would say yes. Tevi is likely to be one of the better back up LT options in the league, he is a former low end starting LT.

Call me crazy but we'd be much better off having a starting LT who has proven he can hold his own and not have to rely on Nelson to bail him out. I suppose if we can land Fisher and he's not ready until a couple of games into the season we can maybe live with Tevi. But if Fisher won't be ready until midseason we should probably sign the Leno.

[IndyNorm]

Glass half empty or glass half full? Many teams would love to go into the post draft process with only one hole to fill.

We have more holes than just LT. That's just the largest, gaping hole we have at possibly the 2nd most important position in football.

CB2 is definitely a hole and at least for the short term, pass rush is as well.

[rm1369]

I’m sure shitty teams do. Think the Steelers, Pats, Chiefs, Saints think that way. Do we model ourselves after shit teams or the best teams in the league?

That has nothing to do with our inability to field the most complete team we can. Especially considering how much we sit under the cap levers year. Maybe we would have gone further in the playoffs if we had more help at passrush. I hate to interrupt all the Ballard hero worship here, but we are not doing everything we can. And I hear mixed messages out of the team. We aren’t there yet, the locker room isn’t there yet, then I hear it’s a special team, they have a good feeling about this team. Which is it? People on here act like we have won something, as if we are sitting on top a couple Super Bowl wins. We haven’t won anything.

It’s almost like Ballard doesn’t want to lose that first round pick next year and wants to make sure Wentz gets under that 75% mark.

I’m afraid Ballard will always be so focused on the future and his method that the team will never have a “now” year where Ballard really pushes to field a great team. They’ll instead focus on being a good team for a much longer period. Of course it’s too early to say that for sure because they are still rebuilding and the team still isn’t where they want it to be......

[Oldcolt]

Team not finished product yet but is so much better than when Ballard took over. There is nothing that he has done that says he isn’t interested in winning it all. He is trying to build a complete team, defense offense and special teams (Malik Jefferson anyone?). Takes time.

[Spike]

Team not finished product yet but is so much better than when Ballard took over. There is nothing that he has done that says he isn’t interested in winning it all. He is trying to build a complete team, defense offense and special teams (Malik Jefferson anyone?). Takes time.

How much time? The Colts need a LT, and his name is not Tevi. If I was Irsay, this shit would have already been done. Teams spend money for great players, Ballard hasn't signed anybody worth a shit. As a Colts fan, I am losing my patience with him.

[Oldcolt]

You really think Ballard has not signed any player worth a shit? Really? You and I agree we need a left tackle. I think that there is a chance I’m wrong about that but even if I am right I didn’t think the season was about to start today. How much time? Dont know the answer to that. Maybe never After all it’s been a long fucking time since this team has won shit We have had several off seasons when we signed ‘shit’, won the off season, made fans happy, then shit the bed during the real season. Give me this any day.

[rm1369]

Team not finished product yet but is so much better than when Ballard took over. There is nothing that he has done that says he isn’t interested in winning it all. He is trying to build a complete team, defense offense and special teams (Malik Jefferson anyone?). Takes time.

So when do you think they will be done building and start trying to win? I’m curious because in 2018 many on here said we weren’t in a 3-4 yr rebuild. It’s 2021 now and they are still trying to draft a complete team. So do you expect them to really go after it next year? Year after?

I’m not suggesting Ballard doesn’t want to win. I think he’s doing exactly what he thinks will win. But his method reminds me of Polian’s and Ted Thompson’s. Whether or not that is good is a matter of personal preference I guess.

[Spike]

You really think Ballard has not signed any player worth a shit? Really? You and I agree we need a left tackle. I think that there is a chance I’m wrong about that but even if I am right I didn’t think the season was about to start today. How much time? Dont know the answer to that. Maybe never After all it’s been a long fucking time since this team has won shit We have had several off seasons when we signed ‘shit’, won the off season, made fans happy, then shit the bed during the real season. Give me this any day.

Yeah, well I'm not interested in putting up banners stating that we were runner-ups. If Ballard signs either Fisher or Leno, then it shows me he is interested in winning now.

[Oldcolt]

My own feelings are that until you have the qb position stable you are not going to consistently win. The last guy retiring like he did threw a huge wrench into the time line for me. We reached the playoffs last year with a rental at qb. It’s not an excuse anymore. I would expect more this year. If the defensive line, quarterback doesn’t show real promise this year I’m with you. If there is big deterioration of the offensive line play this year I’m also going to agree Ballard fucked up. I just want to see how it plays out this year

[IndyNorm]

I’m afraid Ballard will always be so focused on the future and his method that the team will never have a “now” year where Ballard really pushes to field a great team. They’ll instead focus on being a good team for a much longer period. Of course it’s too early to say that for sure because they are still rebuilding and the team still isn’t where they want it to be......

The problem isn't so much that Ballard doesn't want to go all in. The problem is that after investing in a QB in the offseason he's refusing to do any more than bottom feed off of other teams' scrap heaps for the most important position in protecting that QB. And it's not like us not having a LT is a huge surprise since AC was considering retiring after 2019.

Ballard for the most part has done a very good job, but if we don't have at least a decent LT signed by training camp then he has royally fucked this offseason up.

[Oldcolt]

I guess I agree. I look every day at least twice to see if we have signed one of the LTs. I think it is premature to crucify Ballard because it hasn’t happened yet. Ballard obviously values offensive line. These last few years have been the best line play we have had in as far back as I can remember. The Manning era could pass block with the best but we’re nowhere as physical in the run game. It’s not like Grigson is running things. I believe Ballard will put together an offensive line that I’ll be happy with

[rm1369]

The problem isn't so much that Ballard doesn't want to go all in. The problem is that after investing in a QB in the offseason he's refusing to do any more than bottom feed off of other teams' scrap heaps for the most important position in protecting that QB. And it's not like us not having a LT is a huge surprise since AC was considering retiring after 2019.

Ballard for the most part has done a very good job, but if we don't have at least a decent LT signed by training camp then he has royally fucked this offseason up.

I don’t like the term “all in”. That makes it sound like it’s this year or nothing, which just isn’t the case. There is a cost in free agency but it is almost never that drastic and never that immediate. They could have signed Trent Williams and it’s not like they would have been cutting guys next year to get under the cap. I’m not advocating Williams by the way - just saying even the extreme wouldn’t have led to a real “all in” situation.

And I get the importance of the LT position, but this has been consistent with Ballard’s MO. He’ll sign someone if he can get them relatively cheap and low risk. Otherwise he’ll be fine rolling into the season with a weakness, preach about the process, and deal with it in the draft next offseason. I don’t think Wentz will be at a huge risk though - Reich will use scheme to help cover the deficiency. The cost probably won’t be Wentz’s health, it will be wins. Same as it was when he did it with WR and DE. But that’s fine because they are still building...

[IndyNorm]

I don’t like the term “all in”. That makes it sound like it’s this year or nothing, which just isn’t the case. There is a cost in free agency but it is almost never that drastic and never that immediate. They could have signed Trent Williams and it’s not like they would have been cutting guys next year to get under the cap. I’m not advocating Williams by the way - just saying even the extreme wouldn’t have led to a real “all in” situation.

And I get the importance of the LT position, but this has been consistent with Ballard’s MO. He’ll sign someone if he can get them relatively cheap and low risk. Otherwise he’ll be fine rolling into the season with a weakness, preach about the process, and deal with it in the draft next offseason. I don’t think Wentz will be at a huge risk though - Reich will use scheme to help cover the deficiency. The cost probably won’t be Wentz’s health, it will be wins. Same as it was when he did it with WR and DE. But that’s fine because they are still building...

Unfortunately you're probably right :mad:

[YDFL Commish]

I’m sure shitty teams do. Think the Steelers, Pats, Chiefs, Saints think that way. Do we model ourselves after shit teams or the best teams in the league?

All of those teams have holes.

The Stillers O-Line is a big ? They also lost their 2nd best pass rusher.

The Pats drove the Brinks truck straight into free agency, but does anyone here seriously think that they are better than the Colts?

The Chiefs O-Line got exposed in the SB, and they really haven't improved it as much as many think. The losses definitely out-weigh the gains.

The Saints lost Brees and still had to let a boat load of guys go to stay under the cap.


Also, Ballard isn't done yet. He's got an owner in his ear that wants to win now.

[Spike]

I don’t like the term “all in”. That makes it sound like it’s this year or nothing, which just isn’t the case. There is a cost in free agency but it is almost never that drastic and never that immediate. They could have signed Trent Williams and it’s not like they would have been cutting guys next year to get under the cap. I’m not advocating Williams by the way - just saying even the extreme wouldn’t have led to a real “all in” situation.

And I get the importance of the LT position, but this has been consistent with Ballard’s MO. He’ll sign someone if he can get them relatively cheap and low risk. Otherwise he’ll be fine rolling into the season with a weakness, preach about the process, and deal with it in the draft next offseason. I don’t think Wentz will be at a huge risk though - Reich will use scheme to help cover the deficiency. The cost probably won’t be Wentz’s health, it will be wins. Same as it was when he did it with WR and DE. But that’s fine because they are still building...

Wentz needs a good LT. You can't just scheme it away. Wentz went through hell in Philly, don't want to see a repeat of that in Indy. QB and LT are two of the most important offensive positions in the NFL. Look at what KC went through when both of their tackles weren't in the game, even Mahomes couldn't do crap.

[rm1369]

Wentz needs a good LT. You can't just scheme it away. Wentz went through hell in Philly, don't want to see a repeat of that in Indy. QB and LT are two of the most important offensive positions in the NFL. Look at what KC went through when both of their tackles weren't in the game, even Mahomes couldn't do crap.

I’m not at all advocating for it. I’ve been complaining about this aspect of Ballard’s method for awhile. But at this point it seems pretty consistent. However, I also think the Colts will field a better overall line next year than KC had in SB even if Ballard does nothing else. It will cost wins though - on that we agree.

[Dam8610]

All of those teams have holes.

The Stillers O-Line is a big ? They also lost their 2nd best pass rusher.

The Pats drove the Brinks truck straight into free agency, but does anyone here seriously think that they are better than the Colts?

The Chiefs O-Line got exposed in the SB, and they really haven't improved it as much as many think. The losses definitely out-weigh the gains.

The Saints lost Brees and still had to let a boat load of guys go to stay under the cap.


Also, Ballard isn't done yet. He's got an owner in his ear that wants to win now.

The Steelers OL is a question mark at LT, but solid beyond that. They'll probably sign one of the FAs to plug the hole, just like the Colts. As for pass rush, They'll turn Quincy Roche into something, they have a history of it.

The Cheats got their franchise QB and I'm trying not to think about it. But the league will never learn not to let them have nice things.

I disagree with your assessment of the Chiefs OL. Creed Humphrey and Trey Smith will start for them this year. They traded for Orlando Brown to cover LT, and they have the strongest interior OL group in the NFL at this point after also signing Joe Thuney, Kyle Long, and Austin Blythe. Do they move Thuney or Long outside to RT?

The Saints will compete with some combination of Winston and Hill. They've still got a good team, and they had a sneaky good draft. They got good players in Turner, Werner, and Adebo, and that's going to improve what was already a solid defense.

The Colts could be one of the most complete teams in the league once they sign a competent LT. That would require some of these drafted pass rushers to pan out. The Colts now have 5 top 60 picks invested in the position in the last 4 drafts. Those picks need to start paying dividends on the field.

[Chromeburn]

All of those teams have holes.

The Stillers O-Line is a big ? They also lost their 2nd best pass rusher.

The Pats drove the Brinks truck straight into free agency, but does anyone here seriously think that they are better than the Colts?

The Chiefs O-Line got exposed in the SB, and they really haven't improved it as much as many think. The losses definitely out-weigh the gains.

The Saints lost Brees and still had to let a boat load of guys go to stay under the cap.


Also, Ballard isn't done yet. He's got an owner in his ear that wants to win now.

The Steelers have had one of the best oline over the past two decades. They know the importance of it and will fix it. They also have a number one pass rusher already. Something we have yet to find despite significant investment. Oh and they consistently kick our ass every year.

The pats try to fix their mistakes. The drafted two TEs then signed two TEs this year. They signed a bunch of FAs and they have some really good players coming back from a covid hiatus. Finally they drafted a QB that fits their system perfectly and could potentially be set at the position again after one year of needing a QB.

The Chiefs lost their two starting tackles, of course they got exposed. No one in the league has depth at tackle. What did they do? They completely overhauled their line. Signed a good right tackle, traded for a new left tackle, drafted the best center in the draft, then at the end of the draft they took a really good mailer of a guard who should have gone much higher. They did a great fucking job.

The Saints need to find a QB now, but they have been consistently good in personnel decisions. You act like they did something wrong and had to let people go, the only reason they had to dump people is because of a global pandemic which no one saw coming. They will rebound next year, and mostly they just pushed money around to make it work because that’s what good teams do.

If there wasn’t a pandemic we would be what? 40-60 million more under? Next year we will be at the top again. The difference is those teams make changes and try to fix their issues. Castonzo hinted at retirement last year and they kinda talked him out of it. They should have been looking right then and there for a replacement. I had a feeling he would be gone after this season and now this is where we are. It’s like we have no sense of urgency. Oh well I guess we could have been better this season, but maybe next year we will. I feel like we wasted an opportunity with Luck’s last year, then again last year with Rivers we were almost good enough to go farther. Could a speed rusher have made a difference? Guess we will never know. We seem to embrace good but not good enough.

At least I hope we might have fixed passrush. I want to see what Paye can do when all he has to do is shoot the gap. But still it’s gonna take time for these rookies to develop.

[Dam8610]

The Steelers have had one of the best oline over the past two decades. They know the importance of it and will fix it. They also have a number one pass rusher already. Something we have yet to find despite significant investment. Oh and they consistently kick our ass every year.

The pats try to fix their mistakes. The drafted two TEs then signed two TEs this year. They signed a bunch of FAs and they have some really good players coming back from a covid hiatus. Finally they drafted a QB that fits their system perfectly and could potentially be set at the position again after one year of needing a QB.

The Chiefs lost their two starting tackles, of course they got exposed. No one in the league has depth at tackle. What did they do? They completely overhauled their line. Signed a good right tackle, traded for a new left tackle, drafted the best center in the draft, then at the end of the draft they took a really good mailer of a guard who should have gone much higher. They did a great fucking job.

The Saints need to find a QB now, but they have been consistently good in personnel decisions. You act like they did something wrong and had to let people go, the only reason they had to dump people is because of a global pandemic which no one saw coming. They will rebound next year, and mostly they just pushed money around to make it work because that’s what good teams do.

If there wasn’t a pandemic we would be what? 40-60 million more under? Next year we will be at the top again. The difference is those teams make changes and try to fix their issues. Castonzo hinted at retirement last year and they kinda talked him out of it. They should have been looking right then and there for a replacement. I had a feeling he would be gone after this season and now this is where we are. It’s like we have no sense of urgency. Oh well I guess we could have been better this season, but maybe next year we will. I feel like we wasted an opportunity with Luck’s last year, then again last year with Rivers we were almost good enough to go farther. Could a speed rusher have made a difference? Guess we will never know. We seem to embrace good but not good enough.

At least I hope we might have fixed passrush. I want to see what Paye can do when all he has to do is shoot the gap. But still it’s gonna take time for these rookies to develop.

You think the Chiefs are playing Thuney at RT? That was my thought.

[Racehorse]

The Steelers have had one of the best oline over the past two decades. They know the importance of it and will fix it. They also have a number one pass rusher already. Something we have yet to find despite significant investment. Oh and they consistently kick our ass every year.

The pats try to fix their mistakes. The drafted two TEs then signed two TEs this year. They signed a bunch of FAs and they have some really good players coming back from a covid hiatus. Finally they drafted a QB that fits their system perfectly and could potentially be set at the position again after one year of needing a QB.

The Chiefs lost their two starting tackles, of course they got exposed. No one in the league has depth at tackle. What did they do? They completely overhauled their line. Signed a good right tackle, traded for a new left tackle, drafted the best center in the draft, then at the end of the draft they took a really good mailer of a guard who should have gone much higher. They did a great fucking job.

The Saints need to find a QB now, but they have been consistently good in personnel decisions. You act like they did something wrong and had to let people go, the only reason they had to dump people is because of a global pandemic which no one saw coming. They will rebound next year, and mostly they just pushed money around to make it work because that’s what good teams do.

If there wasn’t a pandemic we would be what? 40-60 million more under? Next year we will be at the top again. The difference is those teams make changes and try to fix their issues. Castonzo hinted at retirement last year and they kinda talked him out of it. They should have been looking right then and there for a replacement. I had a feeling he would be gone after this season and now this is where we are. It’s like we have no sense of urgency. Oh well I guess we could have been better this season, but maybe next year we will. I feel like we wasted an opportunity with Luck’s last year, then again last year with Rivers we were almost good enough to go farther. Could a speed rusher have made a difference? Guess we will never know. We seem to embrace good but not good enough.

At least I hope we might have fixed passrush. I want to see what Paye can do when all he has to do is shoot the gap. But still it’s gonna take time for these rookies to develop.

I think you underestimate the desire of the front office to win the SB. Other than that, you make some good points.

[Chromeburn]

You think the Chiefs are playing Thuney at RT? That was my thought.

It’s looking that way, but won’t know for sure till camp.

[YDFL Commish]

Moot point now. with the Fisher signing.

[Dam8610]

Moot point now. with the Fisher signing.

To an extent, but I'd like to know from the "gotta have a rookie deal at LT" crowd: Fisher at $9.4 million with franchise rights and Paye or Brown at $3 million with franchise rights?

[Racehorse]

To an extent, but I'd like to know from the "gotta have a rookie deal at LT" crowd: Fisher at $9.4 million with franchise rights and Paye or Brown at $3 million with franchise rights?

I am not of that crowd, but a pass rusher who is good on a rookie contract is probably more valuable than a LT on a rookie contract. It is highly likely that we will have both on a rookie contract in three years anyway.

[Racehorse]

I don't think we have heard the last on Fisher coming here.

Guess I was right.

[Chromeburn]

To an extent, but I'd like to know from the "gotta have a rookie deal at LT" crowd: Fisher at $9.4 million with franchise rights and Paye or Brown at $3 million with franchise rights?

It would have been nice. But it looks like we just shifted the weight from the oline to the dline. We still don’t have a franchise pass rusher on our cap. Do looks like we are just spreading that money over several positions.